New Remington 700 bolt extraction issues with factory ammo

stickybolt · November 17, 2014, 06:05 PM

Hey all,

I recently purchased a Remington 700 SPS in 300 win mag and I'm trying to get some more opinions regarding an issue with the bolt sticking foward after firing. I can rotate the bolt up, but pulling it back can be very difficult and sometimes needs a good pounding to get it back. I've read some other threads on this forum about this same problem, but my difference is that this only happens with one of the few kinds of FACTORY ammo I've fired through the rifle.

I experience no problems shooting Remington Managed Recoil or Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain ammunition. I do experience the problem shooting Winchester Super X 150 grain ammunition. I've only shot the Super X a hand full of times during the couple of times I've been to the range due to this problem. Usually the first time I fire them, I can get the bolt back with a big tug, and then the second or third times it becomes very difficult and I have to pound on the bolt handle to get it open. When firing the Core-Lokt immediately after the Super X, there are no problems. I cleaned the chamber with a 12 gauge bore brush before the last time I went to the range but it seemed to have made no difference.

I saved the brass and I can see scratches on the fired Super X brass near the belt from extracting. On the fired Core-Lokt brass, there seems to be a little ring near the belt where the scratches are on the Super X. The unfired Core-Lokt also has this ring, but a lot less pronounced (hard to tell in the pictures, but they're there). I can rechamber and extract the fired Core-Lokt brass without an issue, but I can't fully rechamber the fired Super X brass. Here are the pictures:

Fired Winchester Super X
Unfired Winchester Super X
Fired Remington Core-Lokt
Unfired Remington Core-Lokt

Is there something wrong with my rifle? The Winchester Super X? Both? If there's something wrong with the rifle, why do I only experience symptoms while shooting the Super X and not the Core-Lokt when both of them are suppose to have exactly the same muzzle velocity/energy?

Thanks!

ammo.crafter · November 17, 2014, 06:22 PM

Contact Remington as this may be signs of a non-concentric chamber.

jmr40 · November 17, 2014, 08:28 PM

I believe Winchester had a recall on 300mag ammo a few years ago. Since you are only experiencing problems with Winchester ammo I'd call them first with the box's lot number.

mehavey · November 17, 2014, 11:07 PM

What you are seeing is not 'normal.' Notwithstanding what's advertised, ammunition made by different manufacturers can be quite different in their components and resulting internal ballistics. (Maybe even their external ballistics as well)

If you have a digital caliper, measure the diameter of the "scratched" ring area on the Winchester as compared to that same area on the Remington.

If you have a friend with a chronograph, compare velocities also.

stickybolt · November 18, 2014, 12:06 AM

Unfortunately I don't have access to a caliper to compare diameters. If it means anything, if I were to shake the rounds, I can feel that the Super X's has a a lot more powder inside the case compared to the Core-Lokt (Sorry, I'm quite a novice).

Would it be safe to continue shooting the Core-Lokt ammo before handing the gun over to a gunsmith/Remington? What's up with the shiny ring by the belt on those?

I'll try and call Winchester this week.

Arocholl · November 18, 2014, 12:32 AM

Is it just me or does the ring just forward of the belt look like early signs of case head separation?

Personally, I would stop shooting the rifle; something is clearly wrong and you could be putting yourself in danger by continuing to fire it.

lefteye · November 18, 2014, 12:54 AM

At first I thought the Winchester cartridge might have had a slightly excessive powder charge. However, the primer in the fired Winchester cartridge is nearly identical to the primer in the fired Remington cartridge. Both look normal and indicate appropriate powder charges. I don't think the Winchester case looks like an early sign of case head separation. An early sign of case head separation looks like a slight color change just in front of the case head and a slight thinning of the case in that location. This looks more like a cartridge with a slightly excessive diameter in front of the case head and the shiny scratching is the result of the bolt moving forward to chamber the round and rotating when the bolt was rotated to a closed position.

However, it could be that both the Winchester and Remington cartridges are within the sizing standards and the chamber is slightly too small in diameter just in front of the bolt face.

mehavey · November 18, 2014, 06:39 AM

I recommend the OP head down to the local hardware store and get a digital caliper.
They are ridiculously inexpensive these days, and most questions eventually involve
dimensions.

As others have noted above, hoever re different manufacturers: the brass alloys can
be different, the brass construction/dimensions can be different, the powders are invariably
different, and the bullets are different.

FWIW, the dimension just ahead of the unfired case belt should be 0.5126"
It would be interesting to know what it actually measures out to be in all four
(Rem/Win/Fired/unFired) cases.

rsnell · November 18, 2014, 01:52 PM

Contact Remington and discuss the problem with them. I had the same problem with two Weatherby rifles. One was chambered for the 340 Weatherby and the other for the 378 Weatherby. Since I hand load I was able to find a solution to the problem. The brass just above the belt of the case had expanded to a point where it would not chamber in the rifle. I purchased a die from Innovative Technologies that resizes the brass just above the belt. Problem solved.

If you do not hand load, you do not have this option.

Bob

stickybolt · November 18, 2014, 11:35 PM

Thanks. I'll post an update when/if I get this figured out.

Picher · November 19, 2014, 12:48 PM

This may be crude, but easy to try:

If you have thickness gauges, lay the fired case on a piece of glass or uniform table top and see if the gap between the case just ahead of the belt and the table varies as the case is rolled along on the belt.

You might even notice the gap changing with your eye.

This assumes that the belt is uniform in diameter, but trying several cases might show whether the cases appear out of round.

stickybolt · November 26, 2014, 05:24 PM

Here are the diameters of the brass right above the belt where the rings/scratches appear:

Unfired Rem Ahead Belt: 0.505
Fired Rem Ahead Belt: 0.513

Unfired Win Ahead Belt: 0.508
Fired Win Ahead Belt: 0.5135

I see that that dimension is suppose to be 0.513. The 0.508/0.505 difference is alright, and both should expand to 0.513 correct? But the Win expanding more than the Rem out of the same chamber.

tobnpr · November 26, 2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

But the Win expanding more than the Rem out of the same chamber.

You're only talking about five ten-thousandths...
Brass is obviously "stetchy"...(which is why it's used). It's not unusual to get slightly different dimensions on fired brass due to differing "spring-back" after the case has expanded to the chamber walls and then shrunk back.

Something is amiss, I think, with the Winchester brass.
Just a WAG...but the symptoms of hard extraction and marks on the brass- and the fact you can't re-chamber it sounds like JMR may be onto something.

If the brass doesn't spring back, it would act just like an overpressure load and be hard to extract. I don't see an extractor mark on the case, is one visible perhaps on the side that doesn't show in the picture?

Picher · November 30, 2014, 11:40 AM

Did you check the brass with the micrometer to see if it's out of round ahead of the belt after firing?

Paul B. · December 1, 2014, 12:18 PM

I'd give Winchester a call as I suspect the problem may be with that lot of ammo. Make sure you have the lot number handy. Could be the shells were improperly annealed and are a tad too soft although I would have thought case expansion in the problem area would have been greater.
You could just buy another box of that ammo insuring it has a different lot number and if it works OK, then you'll know it was that lot of brass was bad.
I shoot the .300 Win. Mag. and I've noticed Winchester ammo seems to be a bit hotter than Remington, at least in my rifles but it's never been a problem. I haven't bought any ammo for quite a while as I reload all my ammo.
Paul B.

November 17, 2014, 06:05 PM	#1
stickybolt Junior Member Join Date: November 17, 2014 Posts: 4	New Remington 700 bolt extraction issues with factory ammo Hey all, I recently purchased a Remington 700 SPS in 300 win mag and I'm trying to get some more opinions regarding an issue with the bolt sticking foward after firing. I can rotate the bolt up, but pulling it back can be very difficult and sometimes needs a good pounding to get it back. I've read some other threads on this forum about this same problem, but my difference is that this only happens with one of the few kinds of FACTORY ammo I've fired through the rifle. I experience no problems shooting Remington Managed Recoil or Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain ammunition. I do experience the problem shooting Winchester Super X 150 grain ammunition. I've only shot the Super X a hand full of times during the couple of times I've been to the range due to this problem. Usually the first time I fire them, I can get the bolt back with a big tug, and then the second or third times it becomes very difficult and I have to pound on the bolt handle to get it open. When firing the Core-Lokt immediately after the Super X, there are no problems. I cleaned the chamber with a 12 gauge bore brush before the last time I went to the range but it seemed to have made no difference. I saved the brass and I can see scratches on the fired Super X brass near the belt from extracting. On the fired Core-Lokt brass, there seems to be a little ring near the belt where the scratches are on the Super X. The unfired Core-Lokt also has this ring, but a lot less pronounced (hard to tell in the pictures, but they're there). I can rechamber and extract the fired Core-Lokt brass without an issue, but I can't fully rechamber the fired Super X brass. Here are the pictures: Fired Winchester Super X Unfired Winchester Super X Fired Remington Core-Lokt Unfired Remington Core-Lokt Is there something wrong with my rifle? The Winchester Super X? Both? If there's something wrong with the rifle, why do I only experience symptoms while shooting the Super X and not the Core-Lokt when both of them are suppose to have exactly the same muzzle velocity/energy? Thanks!

November 17, 2014, 06:22 PM	#2
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	700/300 winny Contact Remington as this may be signs of a non-concentric chamber. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

November 18, 2014, 12:54 AM	#7
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	At first I thought the Winchester cartridge might have had a slightly excessive powder charge. However, the primer in the fired Winchester cartridge is nearly identical to the primer in the fired Remington cartridge. Both look normal and indicate appropriate powder charges. I don't think the Winchester case looks like an early sign of case head separation. An early sign of case head separation looks like a slight color change just in front of the case head and a slight thinning of the case in that location. This looks more like a cartridge with a slightly excessive diameter in front of the case head and the shiny scratching is the result of the bolt moving forward to chamber the round and rotating when the bolt was rotated to a closed position. However, it could be that both the Winchester and Remington cartridges are within the sizing standards and the chamber is slightly too small in diameter just in front of the bolt face. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member Last edited by lefteye; November 18, 2014 at 01:13 AM.

November 18, 2014, 06:39 AM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	I recommend the OP head down to the local hardware store and get a digital caliper. They are ridiculously inexpensive these days, and most questions eventually involve dimensions. As others have noted above, hoever re different manufacturers: the brass alloys can be different, the brass construction/dimensions can be different, the powders are invariably different, and the bullets are different. FWIW, the dimension just ahead of the unfired case belt should be 0.5126" It would be interesting to know what it actually measures out to be in all four (Rem/Win/Fired/unFired) cases. Last edited by mehavey; November 18, 2014 at 06:44 AM.

December 1, 2014, 12:18 PM	#15
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I'd give Winchester a call as I suspect the problem may be with that lot of ammo. Make sure you have the lot number handy. Could be the shells were improperly annealed and are a tad too soft although I would have thought case expansion in the problem area would have been greater. You could just buy another box of that ammo insuring it has a different lot number and if it works OK, then you'll know it was that lot of brass was bad. I shoot the .300 Win. Mag. and I've noticed Winchester ammo seems to be a bit hotter than Remington, at least in my rifles but it's never been a problem. I haven't bought any ammo for quite a while as I reload all my ammo. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

November 17, 2014, 08:28 PM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I believe Winchester had a recall on 300mag ammo a few years ago. Since you are only experiencing problems with Winchester ammo I'd call them first with the box's lot number.

November 17, 2014, 11:07 PM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	What you are seeing is not 'normal.' Notwithstanding what's advertised, ammunition made by different manufacturers can be quite different in their components and resulting internal ballistics. (Maybe even their external ballistics as well) If you have a digital caliper, measure the diameter of the "scratched" ring area on the Winchester as compared to that same area on the Remington. If you have a friend with a chronograph, compare velocities also.

November 18, 2014, 12:06 AM	#5
stickybolt Junior Member Join Date: November 17, 2014 Posts: 4	Unfortunately I don't have access to a caliper to compare diameters. If it means anything, if I were to shake the rounds, I can feel that the Super X's has a a lot more powder inside the case compared to the Core-Lokt (Sorry, I'm quite a novice). Would it be safe to continue shooting the Core-Lokt ammo before handing the gun over to a gunsmith/Remington? What's up with the shiny ring by the belt on those? I'll try and call Winchester this week.

November 18, 2014, 12:32 AM	#6
Arocholl Member Join Date: October 30, 2012 Posts: 42	Is it just me or does the ring just forward of the belt look like early signs of case head separation? Personally, I would stop shooting the rifle; something is clearly wrong and you could be putting yourself in danger by continuing to fire it.

November 18, 2014, 01:52 PM	#9
rsnell Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Location: Cleveland, TN Posts: 74	Contact Remington and discuss the problem with them. I had the same problem with two Weatherby rifles. One was chambered for the 340 Weatherby and the other for the 378 Weatherby. Since I hand load I was able to find a solution to the problem. The brass just above the belt of the case had expanded to a point where it would not chamber in the rifle. I purchased a die from Innovative Technologies that resizes the brass just above the belt. Problem solved. If you do not hand load, you do not have this option. Bob

November 18, 2014, 11:35 PM	#10
stickybolt Junior Member Join Date: November 17, 2014 Posts: 4	Thanks. I'll post an update when/if I get this figured out.

November 19, 2014, 12:48 PM	#11
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	This may be crude, but easy to try: If you have thickness gauges, lay the fired case on a piece of glass or uniform table top and see if the gap between the case just ahead of the belt and the table varies as the case is rolled along on the belt. You might even notice the gap changing with your eye. This assumes that the belt is uniform in diameter, but trying several cases might show whether the cases appear out of round.

November 26, 2014, 05:24 PM	#12
stickybolt Junior Member Join Date: November 17, 2014 Posts: 4	Here are the diameters of the brass right above the belt where the rings/scratches appear: Unfired Rem Ahead Belt: 0.505 Fired Rem Ahead Belt: 0.513 Unfired Win Ahead Belt: 0.508 Fired Win Ahead Belt: 0.5135 I see that that dimension is suppose to be 0.513. The 0.508/0.505 difference is alright, and both should expand to 0.513 correct? But the Win expanding more than the Rem out of the same chamber.

November 30, 2014, 11:40 AM	#14
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Did you check the brass with the micrometer to see if it's out of round ahead of the belt after firing?