When you need Magnum Power in a Semi Auto

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 06:25 PM

Our friend WildAlaskas crew made the custom barrel and fitted it to the Springfield 45 Tactical.

It shoots like a dream 13+1 rounds in Mid 44 Magnum Power using a round with the same overall length as the 45 ACP. No its not for the timid nor those with less than sturdy wrist but its a whole lot of fun....

No you cant push it with hot loads as far as the 44 Magnum but your talking a 45 ACP length / 45 ACP caliber round for street carry only with a whole lot more power behind it...

Sights and trigger job planned for the future....

So what do you all think about my solution to the caliber wars?

agtman · June 22, 2011, 06:41 PM

"Magnum power" in a semi-auto ...

The 10mm Glock 20 or 29, ... take your pick.

That's a nice custom XD, by the way.

MidwestRookie · June 22, 2011, 06:44 PM

the barrel looks good, but why no hot loads allowed?

isn't that part of the reason for stepping up to a magnum caliber? lotsa oomph..

jmortimer · June 22, 2011, 06:48 PM

Unless the semi-auto is shooting a revolver caliber you can only get to the bottom of revolver magnum power. The 10mm poops-out around 750 ft lbs where revolvers are just getting started. It makes more sense to say "when you want magnum power shoot a revolver or a semi-auto chambered in a revolver cartridge or settle for the 10mm or .50 AE. Real "power" resides only in revolvers when it comes to handguns.

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

the barrel looks good, but why no hot loads allowed

I dont load my own rounds but I have been told that (rightly/wrongly) that it cant be loaded to the same top end as a 44 Magnum.

bigghoss · June 22, 2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

It shoots like a dream 13+1 rounds in Mid 44 Magnum Power using a round with the same overall length as the 45 ACP. No its not for the timid nor those with less than sturdy wrist but its a whole lot of fun....

No you cant push it with hot loads as far as the 44 Magnum but your talking a 45 ACP length / 45 ACP caliber round for street carry only with a whole lot more power behind it...

you forgot to mention what the caliber IS. for those not familiar with the cartridge, and didn't notice the boxes of ammo in the pics, it's .460 rowland. and I think you've got a heck of a great woods gun there.

dreamweaver · June 22, 2011, 06:58 PM

doesn't the cordon 400 conversion get about the same results?
i don't knw the answer, that's why i'm asking, so don't flame me!

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Unless the semi-auto is shooting a revolver caliber you can only get to the bottom of revolver magnum power. The 10mm poops-out around 750 ft lbs where revolvers are just getting started. It makes more sense to say "when you want magnum power shoot a revolver or a semi-auto chambered in a revolver cartridge or settle for the 10mm or .50 AE. Real "power" resides only in revolvers when it comes to handguns.

I think 255 gr at 1300 fps (HC-FN) /957 ft lbs is is pretty respectable.

I think you will be hard pressed to find a revolver that holds 13+1 rounds without reloading.

Not all of us want a 500 Magnum for CCW and yet this is clearly in Magnum Power, sorry if it doesnt meet your needs but it works for me and it shoots like a dream...

Sgt Pepper · June 22, 2011, 07:04 PM

Nice! I have Clark .460 Rowland conversion for my 1911, and I love it. I am envious of the XD setup, because appears to be a lot simpler.

You cannot load the .460R up to top end .44mag output, because the pressure gets too high. I do not think the case is big enough. You can still easily reach 1,000 lb-ft muzzle energy though.

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 07:04 PM

A cant speak about the 400 conversion.... I dont own one....

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 07:05 PM

Thanks SGT Pepper/AGTman! They are fun to shoot!

MidwestRookie · June 22, 2011, 07:37 PM

oh, I have no idea what a .460 rowland is, I've only heard of it...

I thought it was a 44 magnum conversion.

Rugerismisticness · June 22, 2011, 07:46 PM

If that's an XD45, wouldn't it make sense to convert it to .45super? All you need is a fully supported chamber (I think, IIRC that the xd might already have that) and a heavier recoil spring spring (ok, I'd also prefer the 5" model for slide wieght and the ability to take advantage of all that unburned powder).

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 08:15 PM

45 ACP in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1000 FPS, 566 ft lbs
45 Super in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1075 FPS, 654 ft lbs
460 Rowland in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1300 FPS, 957 ft lbs

10 mm in Buffaloe Bore (HC FN) 220 grains, 1200 FPS, 703 ft lbs

As you can see 45 Super isnt really that big of an improvement over 45 ACP, the 460 Rowland can handle a bit more pressure to be sure... (Or at least thats what I infer from the stats above since all other parameters are pretty much the same, case length is different but overall isnt or isnt much)

Plus I am not a Glock Fan and although I love 1911's dearly the Springfield was more my style...

bigghoss · June 22, 2011, 09:40 PM

the .460 rowland is the same OAL of a .45acp but uses a longer case and seats the bullet deeper this prevents cambering in a .45ACP chamber.

Sgt Pepper · June 22, 2011, 10:27 PM

btw, have you shot it yet? i don't really find it all that bad to shoot. the compensator on mine really reduces recoil. believe me, there is a big difference between hot .45 acp and the .460R, but i found it completely manageable. i also own an XD45, which is one my favorite pistols, and i have wondered what the .460R feels like coming out of it. unfortunately, mine is a 4" service model, and i believe that they only offer conversions for 5" tacticals.

9mm · June 22, 2011, 10:32 PM

Thats awesome, custom built.

BGutzman · June 22, 2011, 10:36 PM

SGT P, I have shot it quite a bit for the short time I have had it. To me the recoil is very comparable to 45 ACP + 40% but the kick is straight back and the ports virtually eliminate barrel climbing, its kind of hard to explain but its alot of fun to shoot.

One kind of odd note, premium SD ammo is actually cheaper or equal to standard 45 acp ammo for the 460...

I like the 460 so much that at some point I will buy a second one but its not in the budget at the moment.

orionengnr · June 22, 2011, 10:46 PM

Standard semi-autos can be had in:
--.45 Super
--.460 Rowland

Exotics such as the AutoMag, Coonan and Wildey available in:
--.357 Mag
--.44 Mag

I'll go along with the 10mm being a pretty dang good compromise, especially considering the magazine capacity of a double stack 10mm. I am not a Glock fan, but I am considering a G-29 or G-20.

pacerdude · June 23, 2011, 12:28 AM

That's pretty nifty. As others have said it should serve you well as a wood's gun. Out of curiosity how available is the ammunition? (I'm not very familiar with that caliber)

Sgt Pepper · June 23, 2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

To me the recoil is very comparable to 45 ACP + 40% but the kick is straight back and the ports virtually eliminate barrel climbing,

my experience exactly.

BGutzman · June 23, 2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

how available is the ammunition?

If you order ammo online its easy to obtain but you wont find it in most gun shops nor chinamart. Corbon, Buffalo Bore, Wilson Combat, Georgia Arms all make Ammo for the 460.

BGutzman · June 23, 2011, 06:23 AM

Quote:

you forgot to mention what the caliber IS.

It is a 45 caliber not 46. To my way of thinking its a 45 Magnum.

jmortimer · June 23, 2011, 09:15 AM

Yes I agree that 950 ft lbs is getting into the lower end of magnum power. More than I expected, but remember, the .44 mag and even "heavy" .45 Colt are shooting 300 plus grain bullets and still getting 30% more "power" so we are still talking apples and oranges when you are maxed out around 250 grains. Still very impressive for a semi-auto. Here is one example from Buffalo Bore that will shoot end to end on any animal you will find: Heavy 45 Colt +P Ammo - 325 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N. (1,325 fps/M.E. 1,267 ft. lbs.) Even if the .45 Colt 325 hard cast LFN were going 1,000 fps and had less "energy/power" it would still be "more gun" as penetration would still be insane compared to a 250 grain bullet will less S.D. at higher speed and more"power." The higher firepower often cited by the 10mm/460 advocates would rarely if ever be and advantage as you are not going to get off more than one round or two regardless in a survial attack situation in the woods. I would rather have one bullet go six feet into a target than two bullets go three feet. So as a woods gun, I stick with a revolver every time. In a ghetto the firepower would be nice but the "power" would be a detriment so I'm not sure where it would be best suited - possibly an attack by a pack of wolves where a .45 acp or 10 mm would work just fine as well.

bigghoss · June 23, 2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

It is a 45 caliber not 46. To my way of thinking its a 45 Magnum.

I said caliber but I meant cambering. it's .460 rowland but I believe the actual bullet diameter is .45something as opposed to .46

June 22, 2011, 06:25 PM	#1
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	When you need Magnum Power in a Semi Auto Our friend WildAlaskas crew made the custom barrel and fitted it to the Springfield 45 Tactical. It shoots like a dream 13+1 rounds in Mid 44 Magnum Power using a round with the same overall length as the 45 ACP. No its not for the timid nor those with less than sturdy wrist but its a whole lot of fun.... No you cant push it with hot loads as far as the 44 Magnum but your talking a 45 ACP length / 45 ACP caliber round for street carry only with a whole lot more power behind it... Sights and trigger job planned for the future.... So what do you all think about my solution to the caliber wars? __________________ Molon Labe

June 22, 2011, 06:41 PM	#2
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	It's call the 10mm AUTO - the first one to do it and still the best. "Magnum power" in a semi-auto ... The 10mm Glock 20 or 29, ... take your pick. That's a nice custom XD, by the way.

June 22, 2011, 06:58 PM	#7
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	doesn't the cordon 400 conversion get about the same results? i don't knw the answer, that's why i'm asking, so don't flame me! __________________ http://takdriver.com/

June 22, 2011, 07:04 PM	#10
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	A cant speak about the 400 conversion.... I dont own one.... __________________ Molon Labe

June 22, 2011, 07:05 PM	#11
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Thanks SGT Pepper/AGTman! They are fun to shoot! __________________ Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; June 22, 2011 at 07:31 PM.

June 22, 2011, 06:44 PM	#3
MidwestRookie Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2010 Location: IL Posts: 462	the barrel looks good, but why no hot loads allowed? isn't that part of the reason for stepping up to a magnum caliber? lotsa oomph..

June 22, 2011, 06:48 PM	#4
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Unless the semi-auto is shooting a revolver caliber you can only get to the bottom of revolver magnum power. The 10mm poops-out around 750 ft lbs where revolvers are just getting started. It makes more sense to say "when you want magnum power shoot a revolver or a semi-auto chambered in a revolver cartridge or settle for the 10mm or .50 AE. Real "power" resides only in revolvers when it comes to handguns.

June 22, 2011, 07:04 PM	#9
Sgt Pepper Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 811	Nice! I have Clark .460 Rowland conversion for my 1911, and I love it. I am envious of the XD setup, because appears to be a lot simpler. You cannot load the .460R up to top end .44mag output, because the pressure gets too high. I do not think the case is big enough. You can still easily reach 1,000 lb-ft muzzle energy though.

June 22, 2011, 07:37 PM	#12
MidwestRookie Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2010 Location: IL Posts: 462	oh, I have no idea what a .460 rowland is, I've only heard of it... I thought it was a 44 magnum conversion.

June 22, 2011, 07:46 PM	#13
Rugerismisticness Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 909	If that's an XD45, wouldn't it make sense to convert it to .45super? All you need is a fully supported chamber (I think, IIRC that the xd might already have that) and a heavier recoil spring spring (ok, I'd also prefer the 5" model for slide wieght and the ability to take advantage of all that unburned powder).

June 22, 2011, 08:15 PM	#14
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	45 ACP in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1000 FPS, 566 ft lbs 45 Super in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1075 FPS, 654 ft lbs 460 Rowland in Buffalo Bore (HC FN) 255 grains 1300 FPS, 957 ft lbs 10 mm in Buffaloe Bore (HC FN) 220 grains, 1200 FPS, 703 ft lbs As you can see 45 Super isnt really that big of an improvement over 45 ACP, the 460 Rowland can handle a bit more pressure to be sure... (Or at least thats what I infer from the stats above since all other parameters are pretty much the same, case length is different but overall isnt or isnt much) Plus I am not a Glock Fan and although I love 1911's dearly the Springfield was more my style... __________________ Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; June 22, 2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: added 10mm for fun

June 22, 2011, 09:40 PM	#15
bigghoss Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2006 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 2,664	the .460 rowland is the same OAL of a .45acp but uses a longer case and seats the bullet deeper this prevents cambering in a .45ACP chamber. __________________ I don't collect guns, I accumulate them.

June 22, 2011, 10:27 PM	#16
Sgt Pepper Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 811	btw, have you shot it yet? i don't really find it all that bad to shoot. the compensator on mine really reduces recoil. believe me, there is a big difference between hot .45 acp and the .460R, but i found it completely manageable. i also own an XD45, which is one my favorite pistols, and i have wondered what the .460R feels like coming out of it. unfortunately, mine is a 4" service model, and i believe that they only offer conversions for 5" tacticals.

June 22, 2011, 10:32 PM	#17
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	Thats awesome, custom built.

June 22, 2011, 10:36 PM	#18
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	SGT P, I have shot it quite a bit for the short time I have had it. To me the recoil is very comparable to 45 ACP + 40% but the kick is straight back and the ports virtually eliminate barrel climbing, its kind of hard to explain but its alot of fun to shoot. One kind of odd note, premium SD ammo is actually cheaper or equal to standard 45 acp ammo for the 460... I like the 460 so much that at some point I will buy a second one but its not in the budget at the moment. __________________ Molon Labe

June 22, 2011, 10:46 PM	#19
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,173	Standard semi-autos can be had in: --.45 Super --.460 Rowland Exotics such as the AutoMag, Coonan and Wildey available in: --.357 Mag --.44 Mag I'll go along with the 10mm being a pretty dang good compromise, especially considering the magazine capacity of a double stack 10mm. I am not a Glock fan, but I am considering a G-29 or G-20.

June 23, 2011, 12:28 AM	#20
pacerdude Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 607	That's pretty nifty. As others have said it should serve you well as a wood's gun. Out of curiosity how available is the ammunition? (I'm not very familiar with that caliber) __________________ Let not a man guard his dignity, but let his dignity guard him. -Ralph Waldo Emerson

June 23, 2011, 09:15 AM	#24
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Yes I agree that 950 ft lbs is getting into the lower end of magnum power. More than I expected, but remember, the .44 mag and even "heavy" .45 Colt are shooting 300 plus grain bullets and still getting 30% more "power" so we are still talking apples and oranges when you are maxed out around 250 grains. Still very impressive for a semi-auto. Here is one example from Buffalo Bore that will shoot end to end on any animal you will find: Heavy 45 Colt +P Ammo - 325 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N. (1,325 fps/M.E. 1,267 ft. lbs.) Even if the .45 Colt 325 hard cast LFN were going 1,000 fps and had less "energy/power" it would still be "more gun" as penetration would still be insane compared to a 250 grain bullet will less S.D. at higher speed and more"power." The higher firepower often cited by the 10mm/460 advocates would rarely if ever be and advantage as you are not going to get off more than one round or two regardless in a survial attack situation in the woods. I would rather have one bullet go six feet into a target than two bullets go three feet. So as a woods gun, I stick with a revolver every time. In a ghetto the firepower would be nice but the "power" would be a detriment so I'm not sure where it would be best suited - possibly an attack by a pack of wolves where a .45 acp or 10 mm would work just fine as well.