Marine Martial Arts....why not? - Page 2

D.W. Drang · June 7, 2002, 02:48 PM

I don't understand why anyone would think that training soldiers and Marines to fight would be a problem. Maybe you think they should attend LTG Claudia "Hillary Clone" Kennedy's "Consideration For Others" training instead? Would that be a better use of their time?
Even if they never actually use the hand to hand training, it still can serve as physical and mental conditioning, it will still build a person's confidence in their ability to cope, there will still be esprit and morale advantages, and only a Clintonite would think that putting military personnel through aggresiveness training was a bad idea!
In 20 years, 3 months, and 3 days of Army service the most fun training I went through was the 7th Infantry Division (Light)'s Rites of Passage--hand to hand--I felt the other guy's garrotte for 2 weeks, but he told ne the same--bayonet, demo... It was GREAT!!!

Gomez · June 7, 2002, 03:41 PM

Reading D. W.'s post, I realized that no one has mentioned it yet, but the "Consideration For Others" training is built INTO the MCMA program. Take a look at the training hours breakdown, it should be on the website that SGT C provided. Remember one of the design goals for the MCMA program is to inculcate certain warrior values into our young marines, values that they are not bringing with them from life experience. [If we don't train our children, the government will do it for us. Any bets on who can do a better job of it?]

D.W. Drang · June 7, 2002, 06:04 PM

Quoth Gomez:

Quote:

...the "Consideration For Others" training is built INTO the MCMA program

PLEASE tell me you're kidding!
Or at least that the Marines hae something called the same but that isn't so Mr Rogers Touchy-Feely "First Sergeant's gonna puke" as the Army's COOT!

madgrad · June 7, 2002, 10:21 PM

I've just seen the Marine Corp Martial Arts Site. I haven't seen any of the tecnniques yet to be sure of it. But, the " Character Development" list reeks suspiciously of your niehborhood Mc Dojo meddleing as well as the inclusiuon of your of all the politically correct programs in this training to get budget $$$ from Congress for it exist.

IMHO

What has my Military come too. I harken back to the days when we just had the Russians, and North Koreans to worry about. And, your simple mission as a Soldier was to kill people, and break things without all the Politically Correct B.S. that comes with it nowadays.

fix · June 10, 2002, 08:35 AM

Erick,

Spot on. Core values are one of the most important parts of military service.

Matt Wallis · June 10, 2002, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Marine took off jacket, got into deep karate stance. Local guy came in jabbing and Marine did a spinning heel kick to local's grill. KO on the spot.

Guess that guy never heard that kicks, especially high spinning kicks, don't work in street fights. What was he thinking!?

Matt

madgrad · June 10, 2002, 09:58 PM

I have always belived that CORE values were to be installed in Basic Training by a good DS.

INMHO

I think the Drill Seargents nowadays aren't allowed to break down, and get the "Society" out of recruits, like they used to. Hence, all the Scandals.

If we wanted to get good CORE values in our recruits, we should have Full Metal Jacket video tapes passed out enmasse to all Drill Seargants as a training manual for them on what a perfect DS looks like....

shy_man · June 11, 2002, 06:07 AM

When I was in the Marine Basic Class, I consider the Obstacles to be a part of body and mind building. I always remember my drill instructor of being keep telling us that your specialty is to kill.

My point here is, any school of martial arts condition your mind to be invulnerable, developed your morale and confidence if it comes to hand to hand combat. But in the real world it is too different. Take for instance a two boxer, the current champion seems invincible, but how come they were also beaten by a challenger. Which these two boxer came from different school with different trainer.
None is so called the best or effective kind of martial arts. The ruth to the matter is, mostly MA schools now are for commercial purposes. And also, there are martial arts for ring competition and the other is for street fight.

This is just my personal opinion.

fix · June 11, 2002, 08:52 AM

Quote:

If we wanted to get good CORE values in our recruits, we should have Full Metal Jacket video tapes passed out enmasse to all Drill Seargants as a training manual for them on what a perfect DS looks like....

I love the movie, but I'm afraid you and I have different opinions of what a Marine DI should be. The movie is just that, a movie.

STLRN · June 11, 2004, 08:24 AM

Although I am not a big fan of MCMAT, I often see some of the training on the POI as a HazEx, it is better than nothing. The reason it is important to practice close combat in an age of precision weapons is that sometimes you still get that close. And in at least 1 case in OEF and several in OIF, American soldiers and Marines have had to resort to the use of a knife or unarmed combat to kill their enemy, it is all that common an occurrence? Hell no, but it happened and it is better to be trained for it and it not happening, than not to be trained and getting into the situation.

Striker1 · June 12, 2004, 10:05 PM

Wonder how the military version of Krav Maga would stack up in the real world?

I have studied Kenpo and Chinese martial arts and I can say for a fact that the version you would see by a skilled practioner on the street would hardly look like the moves and forms practiced in class.

coogan · June 13, 2004, 05:18 AM

linear in-fighting neuro-overide engagement

i just wanted to post that line traing does(did) incorperate knife training in line4 and 5, and even today when i get into physical encounters it is very natural for me to begin the easy but effective movements that i learned about 7 years ago now.

Coogan~

STLRN · June 13, 2004, 12:40 PM

Coogan

You are correct the higher LINE numbers had knife fighting in them. Personal opinion as a former CCI in LINE and a current Green Belt (instructor) in MMA, was LINE was better and more practical technique than MMA. It does not take as long to train with and because of the simplicity of the movements was easier to retain. However it lacked the rheostat that MMA has, since there were only 2 submission techniques and about everything led to a lethal blow.

carebear · June 14, 2004, 02:17 AM

the good old "sweep and stomp"

Squid.HM2 · June 21, 2004, 07:51 PM

posting so far down has a few draw backs, many points are made and i would sound redundent to restate them.So all i can say is what i was told when I did boot camp " the purpose of this (H2H) training is to close with and kill your opponate"

STLRN · June 21, 2004, 08:34 PM

Doc

Did you do MMA or LINE at FMS or when you got to the FMF?

June 7, 2002, 03:41 PM	#27
Gomez Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 297	Reading D. W.'s post, I realized that no one has mentioned it yet, but the "Consideration For Others" training is built INTO the MCMA program. Take a look at the training hours breakdown, it should be on the website that SGT C provided. Remember one of the design goals for the MCMA program is to inculcate certain warrior values into our young marines, values that they are not bringing with them from life experience. [If we don't train our children, the government will do it for us. Any bets on who can do a better job of it?] __________________ "Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it." --Kruger & Dunning

June 11, 2004, 08:24 AM	#35
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	Although I am not a big fan of MCMAT, I often see some of the training on the POI as a HazEx, it is better than nothing. The reason it is important to practice close combat in an age of precision weapons is that sometimes you still get that close. And in at least 1 case in OEF and several in OIF, American soldiers and Marines have had to resort to the use of a knife or unarmed combat to kill their enemy, it is all that common an occurrence? Hell no, but it happened and it is better to be trained for it and it not happening, than not to be trained and getting into the situation. __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

June 13, 2004, 05:18 AM	#37
coogan Junior Member Join Date: May 30, 2004 Location: N. California Posts: 2	line linear in-fighting neuro-overide engagement i just wanted to post that line traing does(did) incorperate knife training in line4 and 5, and even today when i get into physical encounters it is very natural for me to begin the easy but effective movements that i learned about 7 years ago now. Coogan~

June 13, 2004, 12:40 PM	#38
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	Coogan You are correct the higher LINE numbers had knife fighting in them. Personal opinion as a former CCI in LINE and a current Green Belt (instructor) in MMA, was LINE was better and more practical technique than MMA. It does not take as long to train with and because of the simplicity of the movements was easier to retain. However it lacked the rheostat that MMA has, since there were only 2 submission techniques and about everything led to a lethal blow. __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

June 21, 2004, 08:34 PM	#41
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	Doc Did you do MMA or LINE at FMS or when you got to the FMF? __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

June 7, 2002, 10:21 PM	#29
madgrad Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 58	I've just seen the Marine Corp Martial Arts Site. I haven't seen any of the tecnniques yet to be sure of it. But, the " Character Development" list reeks suspiciously of your niehborhood Mc Dojo meddleing as well as the inclusiuon of your of all the politically correct programs in this training to get budget $$$ from Congress for it exist. IMHO What has my Military come too. I harken back to the days when we just had the Russians, and North Koreans to worry about. And, your simple mission as a Soldier was to kill people, and break things without all the Politically Correct B.S. that comes with it nowadays.

June 10, 2002, 08:35 AM	#30
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	Erick, Spot on. Core values are one of the most important parts of military service.

June 10, 2002, 09:58 PM	#32
madgrad Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 58	I have always belived that CORE values were to be installed in Basic Training by a good DS. INMHO I think the Drill Seargents nowadays aren't allowed to break down, and get the "Society" out of recruits, like they used to. Hence, all the Scandals. If we wanted to get good CORE values in our recruits, we should have Full Metal Jacket video tapes passed out enmasse to all Drill Seargants as a training manual for them on what a perfect DS looks like....

June 11, 2002, 06:07 AM	#33
shy_man Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Valenzuela City, Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 366	When I was in the Marine Basic Class, I consider the Obstacles to be a part of body and mind building. I always remember my drill instructor of being keep telling us that your specialty is to kill. My point here is, any school of martial arts condition your mind to be invulnerable, developed your morale and confidence if it comes to hand to hand combat. But in the real world it is too different. Take for instance a two boxer, the current champion seems invincible, but how come they were also beaten by a challenger. Which these two boxer came from different school with different trainer. None is so called the best or effective kind of martial arts. The ruth to the matter is, mostly MA schools now are for commercial purposes. And also, there are martial arts for ring competition and the other is for street fight. This is just my personal opinion.

June 12, 2004, 10:05 PM	#36
Striker1 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: TX Posts: 710	Wonder how the military version of Krav Maga would stack up in the real world? I have studied Kenpo and Chinese martial arts and I can say for a fact that the version you would see by a skilled practioner on the street would hardly look like the moves and forms practiced in class.

June 14, 2004, 02:17 AM	#39
carebear Junior member Join Date: December 8, 2001 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 494	the good old "sweep and stomp"

June 21, 2004, 07:51 PM	#40
Squid.HM2 Junior Member Join Date: June 20, 2004 Posts: 8	posting so far down has a few draw backs, many points are made and i would sound redundent to restate them.So all i can say is what i was told when I did boot camp " the purpose of this (H2H) training is to close with and kill your opponate"