New TC Hawken .50

Ifishsum · August 2, 2007, 09:42 PM

Well, new to me anyways and my first muzzleloader. The guy I bought it from took very good care of it, and it has just the right amount of "patina" for my taste. I've been kinda waiting for something to come along and for $125 I just couldn't pass it up

Of course I had to go out and spend $150 on these so-called "possibles"...

Started at 50gr Pyrodex RS with a PRB, fun and pleasant to shoot. Worked up a little to 60 then 70gr and zeroed the sights at 75 yards. I did notice that accuracy kind of went out the window at 80 grains, is that about normal for this? I think it's a 1:48 twist. I hope to hunt with it next year for deer and elk, but I'm a little concerned that 70gr behind a .50 cal PRB might not be enough power, at least for elk. I kind of want to use a PRB rather than conical for traditions' sake but I don't want to lose a wounded animal.

At any rate, I had a lot of fun and made a lot of smoke, and once I showed my 13 year old boy how to properly load and shoot it he was putting rounds downrange like nobody's business. I think we're both hooked!

lonewolf5348 · August 2, 2007, 09:56 PM

I own 3 flinters all made by t/c all shoot excellent all are early model guns from the 70's and early 80's
How many digits in the serial number on your hawkens,barrel made by t/c will have there models stamped in there barrel,hawkens,renegade,pa hunter etc.
I use heavy charges of real BP goex 3F in my 45,50and 54 cal. m/l
50 cal. flinter 95 grains of 3F
54 renegade 90 grains 3f
45 cal.flinter 90 grains
I use a wad under the patched RB with pillow match material (blue@white) from walmart:My lube is 60/40 beeswax and lard(no salt and a table spoon of olive oil.
I have early serial number barrel 4 and 5 digits t/c barrel in the early years were made by sharon and douglas: They all drive tacks with patched RB'S
I would try some real black and see how the gun shoots.

45Marlin carbine · August 2, 2007, 09:58 PM

I have a CVA .50 w/1-48 twist and groups open up if I load more than 72 grs. 3F under a PRB. this is with a felt wad overpowder. good news is I have been using the Lee REAL slug at the same powder charge and looks like it has some accuracy potential. you might give a conical a try. good luck.

arcticap · August 2, 2007, 10:08 PM

Gee, 2 new posts appeared while I've been typing!

It sounds like you found a nice deal. Yes, long range accuracy can be elusive at the higher hunting velocities. Some folks will try to load a tighter patched round ball combination to improve on it, but every rifle is different.
By tight, I mean very tight, like a .495 ball with a .018 patch (or maybe .015 as a 2nd choice), which then requires a mallet to start it down the bore. It might not work for everyone, and if it doesn't you'll have wasted the money on a box of balls for nothing. But it might be worth a try.
Another method to try is to load a wool wad (a.k.a. - bore button) over the powder and under the patched round ball. This can stop blow by and also improve accuracy with larger powder charges.
An alternative to wool wads are home made over powder wads that can be made from milk cartons, or other similar heavy card material, but they need to be cut to the right size.
Trying both tighter PRB's and wads at the same time may improve the odds even more.
You want to experiment with a cold. clean barrel if possible though to simulate the barrel condition when hunting.
The wool wads are also worth trying with conicals too, sometimes they will improve accuracy but only worsen it in others, depending on the powder charge. So experimentation is always good reason to head to the range!

Medium size bullets and sabots can be very accurate out of the 1 in 48" twist too, but maybe heavier conicals would penetrate elk better in .50 caliber.

Joe Martin · August 2, 2007, 10:23 PM

For deer size game I use 65 and 70 grains of 2fg Goex with a .495 patched round ball and have never had any trouble with this load as it seems to be the two most accurate loads, that is until I go up to 85 and 90 grains of 2fg Goex in my TC Hawken .50 caliber. Several of my friends also have the TC Hawken and Renegade in .50 caliber and all seem to shoot very accurately with the same loads.

I think I would opt for the 85 to 90 grain load for Elk.

Patch and patch lube is very important. I still prefer the TC 1000+ Lube with an .018 pillow ticking patch, for all loads.

The TC's 1 in 48 twist with .005 depth rifling is designed for both round ball and conical. You should get your best results however from the patched round ball, and also there is never any worry of the patched round ball working it's way up the barrel like a conical can do if you're in rough terrain deer or elk hunt.

I would suggest to work your load up from a clean bore with each shot as the first shot you take will be coming from a clean barrel when you go out on the hunt. You'll be far a'head of the game if you swab your bore between shots while working up a hunting load at the range.

The accuracy of the TC's with their 1 in 48 and .005 depth rifling can be finicky to find at times, but it is findable, and they are well made!

Good luck!

Ifishsum · August 3, 2007, 02:58 AM

Thanks to everyone for the tips. I don't need much of an excuse to do some experimenting at the range, and I have a year 'cause I already have centerfire tags drawn this year.

The serial number is a K followed by 5 digits.

I'm using a .490 Hornady ball with the ox yoke .018 pillow tick patch. They take a pretty good pop to get them started but I might try .495, maybe with an .015 patch. I'm not sure I want too much tighter for field loading. It was also suggested to me that for range work I dampen the patches with TC No. 13 bore cleaner instead of lube to keep it cleaner between shots, but when I get serious about a hunting load I will certainly use lubed patches and clean between shots so as to replicate that first shot from a clean cold barrel.

I'm a reloader so I understand about finding the "sweet spot", and I'll keep going up to 85 or 90 just to see if it comes back some. With the shallow lands and 1:48 twist I'm guessing groups will keep getting worse, but I gotta try right?

A couple more questions...

1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency...

2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum.

If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it.

lonewolf5348 · August 3, 2007, 05:44 AM

fIRST:NO SOLVENT CLEANER BETWEEN SHOT: SPIT PATCH OR DAMPEN WATER PATCH FROM A SPRAY BOTTLE THEN A DRY PATCH.

1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency...

2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum.

If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it

STOP AT WALMART AT THE FABRIC DEPT. ASK FOR PILLOW MATERIAL(BLUE AND WHITE ) CUT STRIPS INTO 1" SQUARES OR A MOTOR OIL CAP BOTTLE AND MAKE ROUND PATCHES AND CUT.

I AT ONE TIME USED PYRODEX AND GOT GOOD RESULTS BUT IT WAS THE SELECT GRADE THINK IS JUST FOR PISTOLS SELECT GRADE IS FINER POWDER FOR RIFLES

LUBE: I TRIED T/C BORE BUTER TO MESSIE YOU CAN GO WITH STRAIGHT CRISCO

K : INTHE SERIAL NUMBER IS A KIT GUN 5 DIGITS WOULD SAY LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S : THE BARREL IF THERE IS A STAMP ON STATES HAWKEN YES IT MADE BY T/C: NO HAWKENS STAMP THE BU BET IT A DOUGLAS BARREL.
I BUT MY BP FROM [email protected] but I order 5lbs at a time to make up for the hazmat shipping;

ps: I don't think I would go with a .495 Rb and a .017 patch for t/c barrel it tight
I like hornady .490 and a .017 patch.I would see if you can pick up a package of wonderwads in 54 cal. and seat them over the powder charge before the patched RB will make a tight gas seal.
I will say remember when seating the ball some powder like the same compression some don't I find when seating RB over 3F black no need to compress just let it stop on the powder top

Joe Martin · August 3, 2007, 07:54 PM

A couple more questions...

1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency...

2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum.

If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it.

Ifishsum,

One thing to always practice is doing everything the same after you have worked up a good accurate load.

I always run my patches the same direction and always use the 'darker blue' side of the pillow ticking to place the ball on when starting.

I would use the Pyrodex if I were you since you have this on hand. As for myself I prefer Goex Black Powder, but there is no reason in the world a person should not use what they have available to them.

Things to remeber is that regardless where and what you end up with, every time you fire your muzzle loader you are learning this firearm, getting a feel for it.

K.A.T. · August 3, 2007, 08:56 PM

I've told this before,I'm only going to tell it one more time,everyone probally thinks I'm an idiot,but this is what works for me.I load 20grs. of pyrodex,two 50gr. pyrodex pellets,felt wad then a 320gr.maxi-ball.Shooting 3 in. groups at 100yds. is normal with this load in my rifle.This is what I hunt with and it does a number on the deer.Best two shots so far is a nine point at 93yds,walked out and layed down,it was a hard shot.Best shot was at 107yds. 12 point walking thru the hardwoods.

I was just playing around and found something that works great to hunt with,but what works in my barrel may not work in others.

arcticap · August 4, 2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

It was also suggested to me that for range work I dampen the patches with TC No. 13 bore cleaner instead of lube to keep it cleaner between shots, but when I get serious about a hunting load I will certainly use lubed patches and clean between shots so as to replicate that first shot from a clean cold barrel.

To each their own, but I'm not a big fan of TC #13. It works okay for a quick swab, but it seems to leave a whitish haze or film on the metal that will need to be cleaned off and removed. So I'm not sure this would be beneficial for best accuracy. Since I never tried it between shots, I don't know how well it really works.
And because it seems like a watery product, I would be concerned about it interfering with ignition if it leaves dampness in the barrel.
There's another product called Hoppe's Number 9 Plus Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube that claims to not interfere with ignition. It needs to be shaken up and can be used for swabbing. If used as a patch lube it could dry out over time, so I don't recommend it for that, although the results are reportedly very good, especially in cold weather.
I think that it cleans better than TC #13, especially for Pyrodex residue.
Water might be good for cleaning black powder, but Pyrodex can be very stubborn to remove with it, and it can cause bright steel to permanently stain when it comes in contact with Pryodex residue.

Ifishsum · August 4, 2007, 10:15 PM

Went on a trail shoot today at a Rendezvous, used patches just dampened with TC13 and I didn't swab the bore for the last 15 shots or so. I had no trouble getting the ball started or seated, and accuracy did not seem to fall off, so it seems to be working okay. I don't think I'd keep it loaded like that for any period of time for fear of moist powder, but to load and immediately shoot it seemed to work well. For a hunting load I would use lube on the patch instead.

The Rendezvous was cool, but I'm glad I only took out $40 before I went - saw a lot of stuff at the vendor tents I'd like to have

Also saw a lot of neat rifles.

I appreciate all the suggestions. Keep 'em coming.

Joe Martin · August 4, 2007, 10:43 PM

It's easy to spend money on things at the Rendezvous. Last several years I've been fortunate enough to win quite a few dollars (Traders Bucks) and we have the option of cashing them in or spending them. I always give mine to the family to spend and I normally keep ten dollars worth for myself for something I might need, but really don't...

Hitting on the right patch lube for one's muzzle loader can sometimes be difficult, but as long as the TC 13 is working, give it a good test, and for the type of shooting you did today it sounds as if it worked fine.

You're right in going with a lube for hunting, and as said before, a wad, or even some corn meal between the patch and powder will keep the load fresh from the powder fouling. I've even used half a cotton ball and it works great as well!

August 2, 2007, 09:56 PM	#2
lonewolf5348 Member Join Date: January 20, 2006 Posts: 93	hawkens t/c I own 3 flinters all made by t/c all shoot excellent all are early model guns from the 70's and early 80's How many digits in the serial number on your hawkens,barrel made by t/c will have there models stamped in there barrel,hawkens,renegade,pa hunter etc. I use heavy charges of real BP goex 3F in my 45,50and 54 cal. m/l 50 cal. flinter 95 grains of 3F 54 renegade 90 grains 3f 45 cal.flinter 90 grains I use a wad under the patched RB with pillow match material (blue@white) from walmart:My lube is 60/40 beeswax and lard(no salt and a table spoon of olive oil. I have early serial number barrel 4 and 5 digits t/c barrel in the early years were made by sharon and douglas: They all drive tacks with patched RB'S I would try some real black and see how the gun shoots.

August 2, 2007, 10:23 PM	#5
Joe Martin Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Mid-West Posts: 16	For deer size game I use 65 and 70 grains of 2fg Goex with a .495 patched round ball and have never had any trouble with this load as it seems to be the two most accurate loads, that is until I go up to 85 and 90 grains of 2fg Goex in my TC Hawken .50 caliber. Several of my friends also have the TC Hawken and Renegade in .50 caliber and all seem to shoot very accurately with the same loads. I think I would opt for the 85 to 90 grain load for Elk. Patch and patch lube is very important. I still prefer the TC 1000+ Lube with an .018 pillow ticking patch, for all loads. The TC's 1 in 48 twist with .005 depth rifling is designed for both round ball and conical. You should get your best results however from the patched round ball, and also there is never any worry of the patched round ball working it's way up the barrel like a conical can do if you're in rough terrain deer or elk hunt. I would suggest to work your load up from a clean bore with each shot as the first shot you take will be coming from a clean barrel when you go out on the hunt. You'll be far a'head of the game if you swab your bore between shots while working up a hunting load at the range. The accuracy of the TC's with their 1 in 48 and .005 depth rifling can be finicky to find at times, but it is findable, and they are well made! Good luck! __________________ Joe Martin NRA, NMLRA

August 3, 2007, 07:54 PM	#8
Joe Martin Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Mid-West Posts: 16	A couple more questions... 1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency... 2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum. If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it. Ifishsum, One thing to always practice is doing everything the same after you have worked up a good accurate load. I always run my patches the same direction and always use the 'darker blue' side of the pillow ticking to place the ball on when starting. I would use the Pyrodex if I were you since you have this on hand. As for myself I prefer Goex Black Powder, but there is no reason in the world a person should not use what they have available to them. Things to remeber is that regardless where and what you end up with, every time you fire your muzzle loader you are learning this firearm, getting a feel for it. __________________ Joe Martin NRA, NMLRA

August 3, 2007, 08:56 PM	#9
K.A.T. Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: Gainesville,Ga. Posts: 80	50 cal. Hawkins I've told this before,I'm only going to tell it one more time,everyone probally thinks I'm an idiot,but this is what works for me.I load 20grs. of pyrodex,two 50gr. pyrodex pellets,felt wad then a 320gr.maxi-ball.Shooting 3 in. groups at 100yds. is normal with this load in my rifle.This is what I hunt with and it does a number on the deer.Best two shots so far is a nine point at 93yds,walked out and layed down,it was a hard shot.Best shot was at 107yds. 12 point walking thru the hardwoods. I was just playing around and found something that works great to hunt with,but what works in my barrel may not work in others. __________________ Never mind the dog, beware of the Colt!

August 4, 2007, 10:43 PM	#12
Joe Martin Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Mid-West Posts: 16	It's easy to spend money on things at the Rendezvous. Last several years I've been fortunate enough to win quite a few dollars (Traders Bucks) and we have the option of cashing them in or spending them. I always give mine to the family to spend and I normally keep ten dollars worth for myself for something I might need, but really don't... Hitting on the right patch lube for one's muzzle loader can sometimes be difficult, but as long as the TC 13 is working, give it a good test, and for the type of shooting you did today it sounds as if it worked fine. You're right in going with a lube for hunting, and as said before, a wad, or even some corn meal between the patch and powder will keep the load fresh from the powder fouling. I've even used half a cotton ball and it works great as well! __________________ Joe Martin NRA, NMLRA

August 2, 2007, 09:42 PM	#1
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	New TC Hawken .50 Well, new to me anyways and my first muzzleloader. The guy I bought it from took very good care of it, and it has just the right amount of "patina" for my taste. I've been kinda waiting for something to come along and for $125 I just couldn't pass it up Of course I had to go out and spend $150 on these so-called "possibles"... Started at 50gr Pyrodex RS with a PRB, fun and pleasant to shoot. Worked up a little to 60 then 70gr and zeroed the sights at 75 yards. I did notice that accuracy kind of went out the window at 80 grains, is that about normal for this? I think it's a 1:48 twist. I hope to hunt with it next year for deer and elk, but I'm a little concerned that 70gr behind a .50 cal PRB might not be enough power, at least for elk. I kind of want to use a PRB rather than conical for traditions' sake but I don't want to lose a wounded animal. At any rate, I had a lot of fun and made a lot of smoke, and once I showed my 13 year old boy how to properly load and shoot it he was putting rounds downrange like nobody's business. I think we're both hooked!

August 2, 2007, 09:58 PM	#3
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I have a CVA .50 w/1-48 twist and groups open up if I load more than 72 grs. 3F under a PRB. this is with a felt wad overpowder. good news is I have been using the Lee REAL slug at the same powder charge and looks like it has some accuracy potential. you might give a conical a try. good luck.

August 2, 2007, 10:08 PM	#4
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Gee, 2 new posts appeared while I've been typing! It sounds like you found a nice deal. Yes, long range accuracy can be elusive at the higher hunting velocities. Some folks will try to load a tighter patched round ball combination to improve on it, but every rifle is different. By tight, I mean very tight, like a .495 ball with a .018 patch (or maybe .015 as a 2nd choice), which then requires a mallet to start it down the bore. It might not work for everyone, and if it doesn't you'll have wasted the money on a box of balls for nothing. But it might be worth a try. Another method to try is to load a wool wad (a.k.a. - bore button) over the powder and under the patched round ball. This can stop blow by and also improve accuracy with larger powder charges. An alternative to wool wads are home made over powder wads that can be made from milk cartons, or other similar heavy card material, but they need to be cut to the right size. Trying both tighter PRB's and wads at the same time may improve the odds even more. You want to experiment with a cold. clean barrel if possible though to simulate the barrel condition when hunting. The wool wads are also worth trying with conicals too, sometimes they will improve accuracy but only worsen it in others, depending on the powder charge. So experimentation is always good reason to head to the range! Medium size bullets and sabots can be very accurate out of the 1 in 48" twist too, but maybe heavier conicals would penetrate elk better in .50 caliber.

August 3, 2007, 02:58 AM	#6
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Thanks to everyone for the tips. I don't need much of an excuse to do some experimenting at the range, and I have a year 'cause I already have centerfire tags drawn this year. The serial number is a K followed by 5 digits. I'm using a .490 Hornady ball with the ox yoke .018 pillow tick patch. They take a pretty good pop to get them started but I might try .495, maybe with an .015 patch. I'm not sure I want too much tighter for field loading. It was also suggested to me that for range work I dampen the patches with TC No. 13 bore cleaner instead of lube to keep it cleaner between shots, but when I get serious about a hunting load I will certainly use lubed patches and clean between shots so as to replicate that first shot from a clean cold barrel. I'm a reloader so I understand about finding the "sweet spot", and I'll keep going up to 85 or 90 just to see if it comes back some. With the shallow lands and 1:48 twist I'm guessing groups will keep getting worse, but I gotta try right? A couple more questions... 1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency... 2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum. If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it.

August 3, 2007, 05:44 AM	#7
lonewolf5348 Member Join Date: January 20, 2006 Posts: 93	fIRST:NO SOLVENT CLEANER BETWEEN SHOT: SPIT PATCH OR DAMPEN WATER PATCH FROM A SPRAY BOTTLE THEN A DRY PATCH. 1. Does the grain of the patch make a difference? It would seem that orienting them the same way each time would lend to at least a little consistency... 2. Is it worthwhile experimenting with Pyrodex P? I have a couple pounds of it I use in .45 Colt cartridges. Of course I'd start back at 50gr and stop short of maximum. If I can find some real blackpowder around here I'd like to try that too. None of the stores I frequent carry it STOP AT WALMART AT THE FABRIC DEPT. ASK FOR PILLOW MATERIAL(BLUE AND WHITE ) CUT STRIPS INTO 1" SQUARES OR A MOTOR OIL CAP BOTTLE AND MAKE ROUND PATCHES AND CUT. I AT ONE TIME USED PYRODEX AND GOT GOOD RESULTS BUT IT WAS THE SELECT GRADE THINK IS JUST FOR PISTOLS SELECT GRADE IS FINER POWDER FOR RIFLES LUBE: I TRIED T/C BORE BUTER TO MESSIE YOU CAN GO WITH STRAIGHT CRISCO K : INTHE SERIAL NUMBER IS A KIT GUN 5 DIGITS WOULD SAY LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S : THE BARREL IF THERE IS A STAMP ON STATES HAWKEN YES IT MADE BY T/C: NO HAWKENS STAMP THE BU BET IT A DOUGLAS BARREL. I BUT MY BP FROM [email protected] but I order 5lbs at a time to make up for the hazmat shipping; ps: I don't think I would go with a .495 Rb and a .017 patch for t/c barrel it tight I like hornady .490 and a .017 patch.I would see if you can pick up a package of wonderwads in 54 cal. and seat them over the powder charge before the patched RB will make a tight gas seal. I will say remember when seating the ball some powder like the same compression some don't I find when seating RB over 3F black no need to compress just let it stop on the powder top

August 4, 2007, 10:15 PM	#11
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Went on a trail shoot today at a Rendezvous, used patches just dampened with TC13 and I didn't swab the bore for the last 15 shots or so. I had no trouble getting the ball started or seated, and accuracy did not seem to fall off, so it seems to be working okay. I don't think I'd keep it loaded like that for any period of time for fear of moist powder, but to load and immediately shoot it seemed to work well. For a hunting load I would use lube on the patch instead. The Rendezvous was cool, but I'm glad I only took out $40 before I went - saw a lot of stuff at the vendor tents I'd like to have Also saw a lot of neat rifles. I appreciate all the suggestions. Keep 'em coming.