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December 16, 2012, 02:29 PM | #26 | |
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The bags of money have an exploding dye pack in them, and the tellers just hand them over no questions asked. Nobody shoots it out. I was actually inside a NationsBank in San Francisco several years ago that was robbed while I was in an account manager's office. All he did was look at his phone, say excuse me, get up and close the office door, then ask me to sit and wait while he made a call. He was on the phone listening intently for several minutes saying yes, no, yes, yes, no, and never giving me any indication what was happening. (Other than obviously something was very wrong.) After a few minutes he apologized, opened the door, explained the bank had just been robbed, and he had kept me there for safety. Standard policy. Steal a million dollars in paper money from a bank and the treasury replaces it to the bank. Steal one life in a shoot out and no one replaces it, ever. Yes, we need answers. We need policies. We need solutions. But the bank analogy fails. We need better access to mental health resources in this country. And quite honestly, as one married to a mental health provider, I know that we need to modify the way people get "tagged for life" with mental issues. Grief counseling because your sister or brother who was estranged from the family took their own life can get the wrong check box on your medical insurance and you'll get blocked from gun ownership. My wife is very careful about what she does and doesn't record in a medical chart. You have to put enough to get the insurer to pay, but you do not want to put so much that inaccurate BS follows the patient around for decades. The system is broken. So, as above, start the petition for better mental health services. MB |
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December 16, 2012, 02:42 PM | #27 |
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I have seen talks of an Executive Order to ban assault weapons and create other new or revisited gun restrictions. How do we think this would work out? POTUS has done this before.
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December 16, 2012, 02:43 PM | #28 |
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The demographics in the USA is changing. This isn't the 70's, 80's, or even the 90's demographics anymore. It's a whole new crowd and mentality.
In addition, the "makers" are now outnumbered by the "takers" and we saw that in this election. We have an emotional, infantilized citizenry, now. Big government loves that kinda crowd. The members of forums like this are very different than most. I believe that you folks fail to appreciate the willingness of the modern American to A) give up their freedoms and B) demand entitlements just for breathing the air, here. There is very little, in my opinion, to prevent our government from creating strong controls on firearms. I just don't see any resistance on the part of the public. Titillating tragedies that are hyped even further by the media create the illusion that our kids are in danger nationwide to rampant shootings. sigh |
December 16, 2012, 02:45 PM | #29 |
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+1 to Nate45
That is the only way, anything less and it will happen again.
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December 16, 2012, 03:11 PM | #30 | |
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Why does no one ask the question, why are we in a deficit crisis? Why does America churn out such uneducated children? Why is there a shift in youth feelings toward government intervention in our society? Why is there a misconception that the only proper self-defense is to make the tools used in assaults illegal rather than learning to fight for yourself on even grounds? Why is there so much ignorance on firearms? Why is our country slowly deteriorating into democratic socialism rather than a Republic of capitalism? It's the same answer as to why gun free zones exists. The same reason why our financial sector is riddled with sub-prime spending. It is the same reason why President Barack Obama has been re-elected. I agree with democrats, and bureaucrats. No gun, other than military and LE personnel, should ever be present on government run property. However, government run property should be entirely restricted to that which government functions on. Legislation, courts, cabinets, etc. The government has blinded everyone with this altruistic notion of good will. That people have a right to a certain market product. They tell you that healthcare is a right, that education is a right, that there should be no profit in such markets. They believe one the largest fallacies of the resultant mass spread of Keynesian economics. That something can exist without a profit motive. That a profit motive is in fact an aspect of sadism on society, leaching wealth off others by selling products at a premium rather than by need. They will tell you that you don't need guns, like you don't need extreme wealth, or a gas-guzzler. The greatest need comes first. And then people wonder why those markets experience inflation and bankruptcy first. They wonder why their children come home from school and go to occupy protests, proclaim a tool is inherently evil, and want a classist society where the rich are burdened with blame, the poor receive aid, and congress will save us from ourselves. Then we, the Americans of the 2nd Amendment, are so confused when our god-given, constitutionally recognized rights are infringed.
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December 16, 2012, 03:20 PM | #31 | |
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Hint.
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December 16, 2012, 05:56 PM | #32 | |
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Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill) |
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December 16, 2012, 06:12 PM | #33 |
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The problem is most people are ignorant of guns... Oh my goodness most people just about load britches at the word "gun" said by a stranger. Enough people aren't growning up with shooting and gun safety as part of their childhood.
I have heard several people including a major network reporter say point blank that the 2A was a 300 year old amendment that has no place in todays society. Funny it seems to be applied to some other amendments as it fits there needs also.. I see a society that condones things, I wont touch on, except to say they go against all the traditions and values I was taught and grew up with. I don't know where it all ends, and I cant debate it here, but to say it all has an effect. Average people are taught guns are "Always" a threat, never good and never used by trustworthy people... Complete crap.. The media couldn't be less gun friendly and all of it has an effect... I worry for the day when we are all disarmed and sheeple is all we are... My signature block says what I believe... Freedom was killed by ignorance... Normal / Traditional is being framed as extreme and prejudicial and things that were once fringe are though of as main stream and proper... This applies to many, many things..
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Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; December 16, 2012 at 06:38 PM. |
December 16, 2012, 06:51 PM | #34 | |
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December 16, 2012, 10:05 PM | #35 | ||
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If this sort of thing were tried, the Supreme Court would pounce on it like starving hyenas.
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December 16, 2012, 10:31 PM | #36 |
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Actually, the armed guards in school would be free. There are untold numbers of teachers, principals, custodians, etc who would carry at school if allowed. A good friend who teaches and has had his CCW for decades recently petitioned his superintendent for permission, and was denied. The super gave him the usual fantasy that they have procedures in place, blah, blah, blah. As we just saw, procedures do nothing when the criminal is determined. The teacher in the classroom is the last line of defense, and all they can bring to a gunfight is their unprotected bodies.
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December 16, 2012, 10:32 PM | #37 |
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Thanks for clarification on the EO Tom.
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December 16, 2012, 10:34 PM | #38 |
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Thanks to the information age, everyone can express their views with the touch of a button or three. Nothing requiring much effort, such as actually writing a letter and mailing it.
100,000 people pushing a button to say "add me to the petition" on their cell phone (and likely a huge percentage of them under voting age) is an indicator,but not a strong one. Those in power know this, and while they will be all to happy to trot out their usual demands, or even increase them, even they know that instant passage of the legislation is not good governance, it is bowing to mob rule. There will be much outcry, people will demand "something" be done. But what can be done and what should be done are two vastly different things.
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December 16, 2012, 10:39 PM | #39 | |
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December 17, 2012, 12:00 AM | #40 |
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Obama is not interested in taking guns. The NRA is as bad as the anti gun establishment neither one is helping our gun rights. You should believe the crap the NRA says about as much as the anti's do. We have the Constitution on our side. We have a population in both parties both as citizens and politicians that are not going to support this.
As far as most of you are concerned I'm the worst kind of godless liberal and I am. I also spent more then my fair share of time here and around the world defending ALL of the Constitution not just the bits and pieces that I like and believe me there are parts I would like to cut out just like anyone else but that's not the way it works. Calm is what we need. Reactionary behavior is for the fringe not sound minded, intelligent people with a strong case. Let the anti's be reactionary. Let them wear themselves out. Let them look heartless for using this tragedy for a cause. Don't be like them. Our cause is to important and to just. I believe we all support anti violence so lets guide the discussion where it needs to go. Stop the violence. Tools don't create, commit, cause or condone violent acts. Violence here and around the world is caused mostly by inequality. When people don't feel safe and secure they act out. We watch it happen around the world on a daily basis. Fix that and it solves 99% of the violence in the world. Last edited by Tom Servo; December 17, 2012 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Excised intemperate language |
December 17, 2012, 07:19 AM | #41 | |
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On one hand, a petition site like "We the People" could be a very hard brutally efficient way of shortcutting the letter writing process. On the other hand, it lacks credibility. The former is an aspect I never considered. The latter may only be because the site is still in it's infancy, so to speak. I'll have to look back at all the petitions submitted to date and see if there's a clue. Thankfully, the site has only been up for a litle over a year/I'm retired and have nothing much else going on right now . @ Nate45 - no offence taken at all - we're cool. I just didn't want the thread to drift into areas that. for right now. are better left alone. |
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December 17, 2012, 03:13 PM | #42 |
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100,000 signatures
Agreed, these White House petitions rarely get any attention or any productive outcomes. The White House has commented on this petition that it is the fastest petition ever signed.
Therefore we have taken their petition and changed just a few words on it to be in favor of gun rights. Mental health kills people, not guns. This petition will be promoted this week through forums and social media all week. Please spread it through you favorite forums and share on Facebook and Twitter. Sign the petition now. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...*****=shorturl |
December 17, 2012, 03:20 PM | #43 | |
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December 17, 2012, 03:34 PM | #44 | |
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There's hardly been only one. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoo...a_(2010–2011) That link is for a two year period. A google search of "school attacks" will bring up a list of dozens, at least 15 of which have been in "oriental places", I didn't check the locations, I'm going by the language/alphabet of the name. The simple truth that needs to be spoken and reinforced is that these incidents are not: 1)New 2)Uniquely American 3)Gun related |
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December 17, 2012, 04:03 PM | #45 |
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My apologies.
My search for "school violence" the other day only turned up the once incident that occured last Friday. I was trying to get the point across to someone that there's no such thing as "gun violence", there's only "violence" I do thank you for the extra "ammunition" provided by that link. |
December 18, 2012, 02:38 AM | #46 | |
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Phone calls were also listened to, but were not given the same weight of opinion. 10 or 20 to 1 was the "value" of phone calls to written letters in those days. Even today, an e-mail or a text, or an online petition does not impress them as much as a written letter, I have no idea what they consider the ratio today, but the fact is that even a huge seeming number of "hits" on a subject is only a tiny fraction of a percentage of the nation, and high electronic numbers on an issue today do not mean similar support for the same position the week after next. This most recent mass murder is horrifying, but it is not new, not uniquely American, and not nearly as common as the media leads us to believe.
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December 18, 2012, 09:48 AM | #47 | |
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My recent experience with a written letter speaks of a different story.
My wife works in the MR/DD field for the county. My wife and one of her clients wrote to the POS about how recent budget cuts in funding had caused her to lose her access to physical therapy and pleaded for some reconsideration. She got a very encouraging form letter back saying how wonderful it was that she was 100% behind and efforts to control spending. IOW - exactly the opposite. I wonder just how far written letters go any more? Sounds like a good idea for a thread eh? Quote:
I've been mulling over the idea of the White House petitions and how they could be incorporated. Creating a database out of those online petitions would be child's play. The formating is perfect for importing into a searchable database. Contrast that to written letters, which would either have to be scanned in or manually entered. A single response could then be generated to each signer also instead of generating individual responses. It's (as I said above) a brutally efficient system. The "geek" in me admires it. Make no mistake, the information age has a very dark underbelly. Knowledge is power and he who controls the flow of knowledge wields a tremendous amount of power... Last edited by Hal; December 18, 2012 at 10:14 AM. |
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December 18, 2012, 10:39 AM | #48 |
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Call me paranoid but I feel nervious about adding my name and address to what is basically a "People to raid once the gun grab begins" list.
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December 18, 2012, 12:16 PM | #49 |
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Your paranoid
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I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. "If gun owners are as violent as anti-gunners said we are, there wouldn't be any anti's left" |
December 18, 2012, 12:18 PM | #50 |
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