Which Press to Start?

[COSteve]

Right now, the best engineered, most convenient, best value by far is the Lee Classic Turret. My goodness, there's a reason or 7 why it keeps getting recommended!

Maybe here, but the most recommended and used press by shooters is the Dillon 550B. It is a great press to start on as it can be used as a single stage while learning but then the owner can progress to full progressive operation.

There's a reason why the vast majority of competitive shooters use Dillons is simply because they work, and work well. Fiddling with our press to keep it running right isn't what most of us consider enjoyable, we want one that produces as advertised. Dillons are renown for that. Buy your press once and use it for everything for the rest of your life.

[TacticalDefense1911]

I started with the Lee turret press and it has been great so far; especially for the price. The press automatically cycling to the next die really saves time. I've found that from time to time the indexing of the dies gets just slightly off which requires you to rotate the dies to the correct position but this is just on a rare occasion and takes little time to correct. For the price it is a really hard press to beat IMO if you are not looking for something with the complexity, speed and price of a progressive style press.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by COSteve

Maybe here, but the most recommended and used press by shooters is the Dillon 550B. It is a great press to start on as it can be used as a single stage while learning but then the owner can progress to full progressive operation.

The price difference is rather enormous though, and comes with no advantage to someone who's not "a shooter".

I have absolutely no need for a press that can produce 1500 rounds per hour. That would supply me with a year and a half of ammo for my handgun and 10 years of rifle in two hours time.

The Lee Classic turret is the perfect solution. Inexpensive, precise, versatile and fast enough to produce 200+ rounds per hour of handgun. That means that in 2 or 3 hours over the course of an entire year I can produce all the ammo I need for the handgun, it's ready for any rifle I care to load in 10 seconds time and can produce sub-1/2 MOA rounds, at least.

[BigJimP]

Budgets are always an issue -- and we all have them ...

But if you think you'll become a bigger shooter over time ....20 - 30 yrs maybe ... then spending the money for a good progressive press, that will crank out a lot more ammo in an hour, may be a smart investment in the long run.

30 yrs ago I was using an RCBS Rock Chucker press on handgun ammo ...and today with 2 adult boys / and 10 grandkids now ....my Dillon 650 press gets a lot of work ....and cranks out a lot of ammo / the Rock Chucker was donated to a new reloader that was just getting started, lived in a small house, and wasn't sure what he wanted to do long term.

I justify all this in my own mind probably ....but it makes it easier to go over to the range / shoot 400 or 500 rounds a week thru my handguns ...and I like it ! I don't want to spend 5 hours loading that 500 rounds when a 650 can do it in 30 min.

[COSteve]

BigJimP has some sound advice there. A press is about the long term. I started with a Dillon 550B and one caliber and just 4½ years later I was reloading 5 calibers.



I decided to step up to a casefeeder that would take both rifle and pistol ammo so I sold my 550B and got a 650 w/casefeeder and I couldn't be happier. And now I'm reloading 8 different calibers.



BTW: When I sold my Dillon 550B, I listed it on Glocktalk at 80% of the then current price, more than I paid for it but common for a Dillon press in good condition, and sold it in 2 minutes. That's something that you can't do with a Lee, Hornady, or RCBS press; recover your investment.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by COSteve

BTW: When I sold my Dillon 550B, I listed it on Glocktalk at 80% of the then current price, more than I paid for it but common for a Dillon press in good condition, and sold it in 2 minutes. That's something that you can't do with a Lee, Hornady, or RCBS press; recover your investment.

Maybe, but my Lee turret cost $84. If I use it for 3 years and upgrade to a progressive, which I find unlikely, but if I do, and I sell it for $45, what have I lost? $39 in 3 years?

If I spend $1000 on a fancy Dillon, which I need none of the capabilities of, and use it for three years before I do need the capabilities, what have I gained? Only the $39 that I would have lost on the Lee.

Virtually no real world gain for going with a Dillon when I don't need the capacity.

Your Dillon, in mass production mode, how good is the ammo? Do you build precision rifle (1/2 MOA or under) with it?

[rtpzwms]

I wish he had posted this as a poll so we could see the votes for each model buy the members.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by rtpzwms

"But if you think you'll become a bigger shooter over time ....20 - 30 yrs maybe" I find very insulting and we do not need to uses these phrases. Based on the information I've seen provided by everyone here each has a point. Saying Dillon is the most recommended if fine if you can support that with a source not just hear say. I have seen posts that would differ from that thought on this site. 1/2 MOA or better, is that needed /wanted by our OP? Neither is right or wrong just a point of view. I am asking that we keep our answers focused on what the OP asked. I wish he had posted this as a poll so we could see the votes for each model buy the members.

I'm a little confused why anything that's been said so far in this thread would offend you. There's nothing offensive about the comment about becoming a bigger shooter. How can going from 200 rounds a year to 20k be offensive, or saying that you're not a "bigger shooter" because you don't shoot 20,000 a year? You're NOT a big shooter if you don't shoot a lot.... that's what a big shooter is, in this context.

Anyway, we ARE talking about the OP's question. He wanted to know which press to start with. We are giving our opinions and why. While it may not be EXACTLY the original point, threads do have a way of evolving over time.

As to 1/2 MOA accuracy... I don't know if it's needed or wanted by or OP but if he's going to load rifle rounds then he's probably going to want accuracy.

We are all simply stating our opinions.

Take a few minutes in the Tactics and Training section if you want to see "offensive".

[BigJimP]

come on rtpzwms ...,

I said " bigger shooter " .....ok so call the english language police ... I meant a larger volume shooter ...and if you read what I said in context, there was nothing offensive in what I said ....(except to you apparently ) ...... I sure wasn't talking about "how big you are / or aren't ...) lighten up a little ...take a deep breath and back away from the video games ...

I was just making a point that as time has gone on / some of us are now shooting much higher volumes of ammo than we did 30 yrs ago .... so maybe, a progressive press makes sense now ...maybe not... I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs to learn on a single stage ....you can learn to load high quality ammo on a progressive machine ( if you keep it clean and well tuned, in my opinion ).

Peetzakilla makes a good point about value over time - and it apparently works for what he needs. He won't lose any money over time / except maybe the progressive press will go up in price over time ...but that's not a big deal either probably. I never said a single stage is a waste of money. A single stage RCBS worked for me 30 yrs ago / now I would find it very frustrating. COSteve likes his 550 ---and its a good press -- but the manual indexing on the 550 would drive me nuts ...but that doesn't make it a bad press - except to me....

All I was saying was think about your needs down the road / maybe a progressive press will make some sense now - if the OP can afford it.

[CrustyFN]

I'm leaning toward the Lee used as a single stage and manually turning the turret until I get comfortable with reloading and then working my way up to using the auto index feature.

That's the best way to go in my opinion. I have been loading on a Lee classic turret four years now and it has been a great press. I am not a hard core competition shooter but I do shoot some competition and the classic turret meets my needs no problem. It's a very easy press to set up and operate as a beginner. Then when you want to pick up the pace after you get comfortable with the process of reloading you can add the auto indexing rod and load three times faster and not have to spend any money to do it. Make sure it's the classic turret not the deluxe turret. If you buy it from Kempf make sure to get the pro auto disk and both safety prime upgrades, well worth the $20. I load 9mm, 38 spcl, 45 auto and 223 on mine and don't see any other press in my near future. And just for the record I have loaded on a Dillon 550 and do know what I'm missing.





PS, it won't come with a three ball.

[Aegis]

Hey guys,

I appreciate all of the feedback.

I have no doubt that the Dillon machines are top notch. The reason I didn't include those has mostly to do with price. As someone up thread pointed out, even the used units hold a fairly high price.

I'm looking to get started in reloading and I think I'll really enjoy it. However, I can't afford to invest a ton of cash up front.

I will likely retire from LE in 2014, and I hope to spend quite a bit of time doing things that I enjoy. If reloading is one of those things, I can see myself really expanding my area and equipment and shooting much more than I get to now. I'm thinking that by that time I may move up to a progressive unit to crank out a higher volume of range ammunition. Whichever unit I start with (leaning heavily toward Classic Turret now) I will keep it for more careful loading.

The Lee and Hornady kits offer a great deal of value to me. With the addition of some good calipers, a scale and loading manual for the Lee kit, Dies for the Hornady kit, and a few other low cost items I'll be ready to load. I should be able to get going with either of those kits for under $350. That price point is one of the reasons I narrowed my search down to those two options.

I'm actually on vacation right now, and I plan on placing my order when I get back home. I don't feel safe transmitting my credit card info over the open wireless networks I'm using.

[Farmland]

Resale value on the Dillon is pretty good too.

Lee - interesting since I own more than a few things made by them. I love the Classic cast single stage. I love the hand held primer device. I was never crazy about most of their other products. In fact I have sold most of my Lee products.I find that a lot of others soon sell their Lee equipment too. Now that isn't scientific just observations from friends.

On the other hand Lee does have their die-hard fan club too.

But when it comes to brands everyone likes what they have bought most of the time. This never means it is the right one for another person.

I'm not a turret fan thus I make no recommendation.

Single Stage - 100% Lee Classic cast.

Progressive - go with the ones that make the best - Dillon my favorite or Hornady.

[Irish80prf]

When you get into reloading rifle rounds I strongly suggest the Lee deluxe die set. It comes with full length sizing die and a neck sizing die so you are set up to reload any brass you get your hands on. They also come with the shell holder you need for that caliber. I've used RCBS dies and I didn't like them near as much as the lee dies. Setting up the seating die is so dang easy.

[MO. Shootin]

I have the lee turret press not the classic. I like the press and can make plenty of ammo to keep me going.

Correct me if I am wrong here but I think the lee classic turret uses the same plastic ratchet peice to advance the turret. If this is the case I would recomend 2 things

1 Make sure you raise the ram a few inches to disengage the ratchet to manually move the turret and don't short stroke the handle or you will screw it up lickity split.

2 Buy about 6 extra of those little square plastic ratchet peices.

Mine just quit for the first time last night and I had to do a search on here to find out what was wrong with it. Put the supplied extra in and I am back in buisnes. It made it probably 800 rounds before I screwed it up which is pretty good considering I did not know of the problem.

I just wish they would use metal for some of those parts instead of plastic. I will say it has me wondering if it was the best decision I have made. Still better than single stage.

[Bigjim3]

I started with a dillion 450, and have moved up to a 650. But check out the 550's you can find them on ebay, and sometimes craigs list for a fair price.. Have fun, be safe and enjoy..

[CrustyFN]

I just wish they would use metal for some of those parts instead of plastic.

Mo I think the reason the ratchet piece isn't metal is if there was a problem screwing up a 50 cent ratchet is a lot better than screwing up a $20 part. I have been loading on a classic turret four years and loaded thousands of rounds and am still on the original ratchet. As you mentioned if you know what not to do they shoud last a long time.

[TXGunNut]

I started with a RCBS Partner kit, bought an aluminum one later for range use. Bought a very early Dillon 550 (sent in place of a 450) and many tens of thousands of competition ammo on it. Still use the RCBS presses, Dillon's been covered for years. I don't compete any more, just load rifle ammo as precisely as possible. I know my 550 will load precise rifle ammo, I just like using my single stage presses and a few benchrest techniques with very clean cases.
Today if I were to start out again I'd get the Lee Classic Turret or maybe the Hornady L n L. Get good dies, if you play this game long enough you'll wind up with them anyway, good ones don't really cost that much more.
If you're going to focus on pistol shooting get a press that will let you spend more time on the range than at the loading bench, for me that's a progressive or one that can be converted to one.
Thinking I should get a 2 ball for my Dillon, maybe a couple of 4's for my RCBS presses. Where'd you get that 3, Crusty?

[snuffy]

[QUOTE]I just wish they would use metal for some of those parts instead of plastic. I will say it has me wondering if it was the bes

Have you ever heard of a safety valve or a fuse? Both ONLY work when there's an overload to protect other more expensive things. That's what the square plastic ratchet piece does.

TGN, Crusty probably got it the same place I got mine;



This is the thread where I lucked out and got the one in the pic free. You should be able to PM AdamN, he'll make one of your choice, don't know the cost. BUT I got a new Lee classic cast that needs an 8 ball to replace that wood knob. I may be doing business with Adam soon.

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/show...ghlight=Q-ball

[noylj]

I would look at the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit ($81.99 at Midway) or the Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic Single Stage Press Kit ($324.99 at Midway). With the Lee kit, you get their Perfect Powder Measure which, despite a lot of arguments, actually works well if you follow the instructions and keep it adjusted. Both will do everything you want, but one is much less expensive and can be used as a starter kit and you can replace and parts as you want/need.
If you think you would ever want to go progressive, I am prejudiced in favor of the Hornady L-N-L AP. I have used one then they first came out (early '80s) and the only press that I would prefer is the Dillon 1050 (which is not for the beginner and not really best for someone who is going to load just a few of many different calibers and configurations.
I feel the the Hornady AP is a fine machine even for a beginner as you can (as with most APs) cycle just one case around the table and watch what is happening. It is not as cluttered in appearance and very easy to watch what is happening. The Dillon models are also very fine, but (except for the 1050) are not user-friendly to me (yes, I know that everyone who has one loves it, but I learned on the Hornady and the Dillons just don't seem very ergonomic without a case feeder).
The advantage I see with the two press kits mentioned are the breech plugs. You adjust a die, lock it to the breech, and never need to adjust that die again. As an AP, the Hornady also is either cheaper or easier to switch calibers then the Dillons (i.e., if you buy a tool head for the Dillon for each caliber, you spend more per conversion from the speed of conversion is probably slightly faster then the Hornady).
The Hornady's also offer their bullet program where you can get enough bullets free to really put a dent in the cost of the press.
Thus, IMHO, I would either look at the Lee kit or I would actually go over and consider the Hornady AP. If you want to observe and check and are going to load a lot of bottleneck cartridges and you aren't planning to shoot more than a few hundred of a given caliber per month, you are best off with a single stage press.
For rifle reloading (bottleneck cases), I deprime, clean in tumbler, inspect each case, resize (and knock out any grains of corn cob media stuck in the flash hole), measure the case length and neck OD and ID, trim length and case neck as required, prime by hand (if for a target rifle, I will clean the primer pocket), then charge each case with powder and seat the bullet. If shooting a lead bullet, I would then crimp the case very slightly since I would have previously belled the case mouth so the lead bullet could be seated without scrapping off any lead).
For pistol (straight-wall cases, the AP comes into its own. There is no worry about case length (except to separate the long cases for target shooting and the shorter cases for plinking). No concern about deburring the flash hole, uniforming the primer pocket, separating cases by headstamp, or any of that stuff. I just inspect each case before and after cleaning (again, depriming prior to cleaning), pour the cases into the case feeder on one of my 1050s, fill up the primer tube, and start loading. Biggest problem is keeping the primer tube full.
For a 5 station press, my set-up is resize (prime), charge case and expand case mouth, powder check die, seat bullet, crimp case. Occasionally, I will set-up as resize (prime), expand case mouth, charge case, inspect powder in case and seat bullet, and case crimp.
In the 1050, it is:
1) case is fed into shell plate
2) case is resized
3) case is, if desire, expanded and belled and primer pocket is swaged to remove military primer crimp
4) seat primer
5) charge case and expand/bell as needed
6) powder check station
7) seat bullet
8) crimp case

[MO. Shootin]

Of course I have heard of a fuse.

If you used more metal then when one piece of metal ran up against another peice of metal and stopped, a person would have to be a numbnut to keep putting enough force on it to break it. This particular peice works when the handle is in the upstroke so its not like you are really leaning on it. It is a nice smooth slide as it rotates the turret.

Instead what you have is a metal rod wallering this little tiny tiny peice of plastic till it eventually gives out. What is this expensive peice they are worried about breaking that other peice of plastic that guides the rod? Everything else is metal.

I have since learned my error and like somebody said above it should last a long time if I am careful. I was just pointing out the only problem I could see a guy getting into with this press and that it is a good idea to get a couple spares. Lee must have thought so also because they send an extra in the box when you buy the press.

[CrustyFN]

Thinking I should get a 2 ball for my Dillon, maybe a couple of 4's for my RCBS presses. Where'd you get that 3, Crusty?

I got mine from the same guy Snuffy did. Adam is a great guy. The best place to contact him now would probably be at the cast boolits forum. I also got a three ball for my sizer. You would be surprised how much more comfortable it is.

[Kevin Rohrer]

If you want to go with a single-stage press that does both pistol and rifle easily, get C-H's '444', 4-station semi-progressive. It is solid steel and is smooth as silk. With four stations it will load around 200-rounds of pistol in an hour. The price is $265 plus some more if you want to get their primer feed (can't really recommend it; the Lee one might be better).

[MO. Shootin]

Ok Kevin that thing looks neat.

So everytime you pull the handle it does up to 4 things all at once. You just have to manualy move the cases from one spot to the other. Is that correct?

[Rifleman1776]

Anything but a Lee.

[CrustyFN]

Anything but a Lee.

It would be nice to know what Lee press you used and what problems you had so we don't confuse you with most other people that make that statement and have never even seen a Lee press. They heard it wasn't good from a friend.