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August 19, 2014, 01:33 PM | #126 | |
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It should be noted that the police have said that 78 protesters/rioters have been arrested and 3 of them are from Ferguson. Clear thinkers who rely on facts can see what's happening there. None of this really has to do with Mike Brown or legitimate race relation concerns.
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August 19, 2014, 01:39 PM | #127 | |
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August 19, 2014, 01:45 PM | #128 |
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All the rioting would end if they just played Barney music over loudspeakers at any rioters. Alternatively a pack of barking wiener dogs. AS the old song goes "a bark so shrill, it will stop a riot..."
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August 19, 2014, 01:53 PM | #129 | |
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August 19, 2014, 01:55 PM | #130 | |
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I’m not sure what the answer is, but I fear the longer these nightly protests go on the greater the likelihood of a major incident. Maybe the Police do need to back off and avoid provoking the protesters. While some businesses might suffer maybe after a night or two with no Police interaction everyone will just get tired and go home. I suspect the media will get tired of covering people holding signs and yelling.
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August 19, 2014, 01:58 PM | #131 | |
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August 19, 2014, 02:00 PM | #132 | |
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August 19, 2014, 02:14 PM | #133 | ||
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Are the legitimate protesters from the next town over not free to protest? Edit to Add: I feel for you. I don't have any answers, either. I only know there is no quick and easy answer. Anything that makes it harder to protest is going to touch on people's rights. Anything that makes it easier to protest is likely to make the rioting easier too. Quote:
That raises a question. This is the Legal forum. At what point does the protester become a rioter? Do they have to throw something? Do they have to hand something to someone to throw? Do they have to specifically tell someone to throw something? If the guy next to you is throwing rocks, is chanting the slogan that worked him up the first time enough to pass the imminent lawless action test? |
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August 19, 2014, 02:25 PM | #134 | ||
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EDIT: looks like they might be doing some of this already. Quote:
Last edited by zincwarrior; August 19, 2014 at 03:08 PM. |
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August 19, 2014, 03:11 PM | #135 |
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It's a bit different when the place is evacuated. If you want to Evacuate Ferguson, I suppose you could then make the case there's no freedom of movement or freedom of association impact by not letting non-residents in to visit the residents who are no longer there.
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August 19, 2014, 05:19 PM | #136 | |
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Reasonable people agree to trust the process, even accepting that the process is not (and cannot be) 100 percent perfect. Look at the numbers of old cases that have been re-opened and reversed based on DNA analysis that wasn't available at the time of the original crime and trial. But we have a Constitution, and it provides for trial by jury. But unreasonable people who are more interested in their own agenda than in true justice don't really care about the process. They want a lynching. |
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August 19, 2014, 05:22 PM | #137 | |
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I really don't want to breathe that stuff in, and I haven't done anything...nuts to that--I'm throwing it back. Now we have escalation. Riot cops pull out the fire hoses or the rubber bullets and spray the crowd indiscriminately. Then other people take action. Are they rioters? Perhaps they are now, but they didn't show up to be. All through modern history, the presence of riot shields and helmets has served to escalate the very tensions they're supposed to control.
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August 19, 2014, 05:31 PM | #138 | |
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The responsible and wise thing to do when the situation shows signs of escalating is to LEAVE. Don't want to breathe tear gas? Run away. Come back tomorrow.
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August 19, 2014, 05:44 PM | #139 | |
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The most recent rounds of arrests have involved officers walking into the crowds and pulling out the suspects. The crowds have allowed it to happen without incident. The whole point of a protest is conflict in a way. The question is who escalates it? In the Ferguson case, that blame lies with the mayor, police chief, and a lot of bad decisions on the ground.
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August 19, 2014, 06:01 PM | #140 | |
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Still, under the circumstances in question, it would be wise and prudent to leave rather than escalate and/or risk arrest. In fact, under these circumstances, I think wisdom and prudence dictates day-time only protests.
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August 19, 2014, 06:34 PM | #141 | ||
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I support peaceful protest on issues. I draw the line at people looting, robbing, burning others property, and harming others. I actually think well of the few protesters who tried to protect some businesses at times during the protest. I dislike those who stand with the ones looting, throwing rocks or Molotov cocktails. I feel that when this is over, no issues will be resolved, and the area may come out more economically depressed then before. |
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August 19, 2014, 06:43 PM | #142 |
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Personally, I think protests should be protests against some sort of injustice. Here, NOBODY (except maybe the police officer, his partner, and Brown's accomplice) knows whether or not there has been an injustice. Until the process has played out and the officer either convicted or cleared, the process has not played out.
Ergo, the protesters are not engaging in a legitimate protest. Brown's parents know how big he was. If he had criminal tendencies and/or gang affiliations, they must have known or at least suspected. If he had anger management issues, the parents knew about them. So he went out and got himself shot by a cop ... and the parents (as always in these cases) are trying to portray him as a harmless victim of police aggression. And they've sold that story to a big chunk of people. What if the officer's story is true? |
August 19, 2014, 06:57 PM | #143 |
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As far as the shooting goes it seems like this is going to play out very much like the Martin case. One side will claim that he was an innocent kid on his way home from Sunday school and the other will claim that he was a thug hell-bent on destruction. As in the Martin case I suspect that the truth will fall somewhere in the middle.
And sure, it makes sense to run the other way when the tear gas gets lobbed. And that seems like the best course of action in Ferguson tonight. But that doesn't mean that it will always be the best plan. There have been times in our history when harsh measures have been used to deny basic Constitutional rights. My dad marched at Selma, he told me about it. In the end I don't know if Hamas-like tactics (using peaceful civilians as cover) come in response to excessive force. Or if that force is needed to combat those tactics. Either way it still makes sense to me to debate all of this now, because this sure strikes me as a glimpse at the future. And I still believe that the issues at play could have an impact on the national gun control debate |
August 19, 2014, 07:06 PM | #144 | |
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I also worry about what will happen when/if he is found innocent. Look at the number of times a minority has been shot and killed by an LEO and it was found justified. People are going to be upset. |
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August 19, 2014, 07:14 PM | #145 |
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I want to watch this thread
so I have to post so I can keep up.
I will just say that whatever happened, the truth has been trampled to the point that we may never know what truly happened. My guess is everyone was wrong. Some more than others. Has anyone pinned down the police chief why he never installed video cameras in the field? This alone speaks volumes to me. As they cannot defend themselves with video, that coupled with the way they mishandled the immediate aftermath of this event is enough to say they need to overhaul those in charge regardless of what went down earlier between Wilson and Brown.
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August 19, 2014, 07:50 PM | #146 |
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Even if they had cameras, they could deny the release (as some depts do) to the public or claim it malfunctioned...happens more than we like to admit..
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August 19, 2014, 07:52 PM | #147 |
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Duty Weapon?
Anyone know the make and model of the weapon used by Wilson to stop Brown? Caliber? Bullet type?
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August 19, 2014, 07:54 PM | #148 | ||
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What you're stating is the police mind set for show of overwhelming force and pain infliction. If you keep hitting the dog on the nose with a rolled up paper, then prudence dictates that he not crap on the rug. Is the role of law enforcement, in the face of mostly peaceful protest, to "serve and protect" or "subdue and control"? I'd argue that the show of force in this case has done much more to incite the violence than to avert it. Maybe that's the intent. Here's a picture of the Ukrainian Army facing off with pro-Russian militants: Oh wait, that's the 95% white Ferguson/St Louis County police getting set up to "serve and protect" the 85% black local community. I find these images very disturbing, and a compelling reminder of why we fight so hard to protect the RKBA. |
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August 19, 2014, 07:58 PM | #149 |
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I zoomed way in on that picture. I didn't see any nametags, and only one maybe-badge.
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August 19, 2014, 08:00 PM | #150 |
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Very valid points WyMark. The police response, in particular to the pre-rioting, did nothing but create the spark. As for the keeping arms, it would have little affect on the armored RVs in the pic.
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