Need help training my dog

[ahenry]

I need some help training my dog. I have an older dog (as in almost 5 years old). She is a Catahoula (think hound dog if you’re not familiar with the breed) and by far, the smartest dog I have ever encountered in my life. I taught her all the standard obedience etiquette, but because she has such a great nose and doesn’t have much activity (other than playing around in the yard), I’ve recently considered training her to hunt either or both squirrels and raccoons. I’m not trying to create the next “Where the Red Fern Grows” type of dog, the main objective is to provide some entertainment and activity for her that I can enjoy as well. I’ve been looking around on the internet and I haven’t been able to find anything that really lays out a start to finish method for training her. Hence my call for help.

Does anybody here have much experience training hunting dogs? Do any of y’all know of any valuable resources for this type of training? ‘Preciate the help…

[VirgilCaine]

Training needs to be fun for both you and your dog. Start slow, just a few minutes a day (10-15), then bump it up. Your dog will tell you when it's had enough for the day. Be patient, and make sure your dog knows what you want before you start correcting.

I would begin by shooting a 'coon or squirrel and putting the carcass right under her nose. Get real excited about it, get her real excited about it. Save a tail or two and make drags out of them. Put her where she can't see you, then drag the tail on the ground and hide it. Then let her find it. When she does, make a big deal out of it. Gradually increase the distances, then hoist the drag up into a tree and let her figure it out. Make a big deal out of any success she has. Say things like "where's the coon"? (squirrel) or "hunt 'em up".

From what I understand about that breed, you might not have to do much more. Is she used to a gun? How far do you want her to range without you?

I think the first time you kill one over her, she'll know what the game is.

Have fun, be patient, think like a dog. I bet she makes one heck of a huntin' buddy.

[yorec]

Virgil's got a pretty good little outline there and it may be enough. But if you run into problems ask questions on some hound related boards like Coonhound Central, UKCs forums, or Coondawgs.com forums.

Lots of good info out there and plenty of great people willing to help if you need it.

[ahenry]

Virgil,

Thanks for the help. I’m no stranger to general dog training, but I have never tried to train a dog for any sort of hunting, so this aspect of dog training is new to me. I haven’t started her out with a drag yet, and considering the difficulty of getting a coon without a dog, I’m thinking about getting a coon scent and covering a dummy with it. That should work alright, shouldn’t it? I think the squirrel side of things will actually be real easy, next time she trees the squirrel in the back yard I’ll just shoot it in the hindquarters and let her finish it. I figure she’ll be good to go from then on.

Is she used to a gun?

She isn’t afraid of a gunshot, but I haven’t done very much shooting around her either. Do you think I need to work her up to a big bore, or since she isn’t showing any fear now should she be good to go?

How far do you want her to range without you?

That’s a good question. Like I said, this is new territory for me, so I’m not sure what is normal. Obviously, I don’t want her to range so far that by the time I get to whatever she’s treed, she has left. On the other hand, the farther she can range the more she can find, and the more fun she can have (one of the main goals). What’s normal or average?

From what I understand about that breed, you might not have to do much more.

I sorta think this’ll be the case. She trees squirrels already (never taken her out after coons), so all I think I really need is a little training to make sure she understands what’s going on, and perhaps keep her off of any trash. Came across some advice on that, but if you have experience with it, I’d appreciate the input.

Thanks again for the help.

[ahenry]

Yorec,

Thanks for the resources. I’ve been reading the coondawg site, but the overwhelming consensus there seems to be that you should train a dog by letting it run with an already trained dog. That is well and good…if I had, or knew of, a trained dog to do that with. The other sites look pretty good as well, so I’ll have to spend some time reading them. Thanks.

[yorec]

I think the squirrel side of things will actually be real easy, next time she trees the squirrel in the back yard I’ll just shoot it in the hindquarters and let her finish it. I figure she’ll be good to go from then on.

Kinda gruesome, but an effective way to go... Problem is if you are looking for squirrel for the pot your dog'll chem 'em up every chance he gets. So careful with such a technique - you'll want to keep his teeth outta your meat.

As for obtainning a coon - try live traps. Worked for me and they can function as a roll cage in a pinch.

Check out Coonhound Central's chatroom - at times there are some old coonsmen who stroll through there and you can pump them for info. Some of those boys have forgotten more about trainning a hound than you or I will ever know. (And at times that chat room falls to the same garbage all of 'em seem to - just be patient and keep coming back of and on til you find someone you can talk to. Use the private chat function for serious one on one dog talk)

[Capt. Charlie]

Suggest you address this one with Rich Lucibella. He has the same breed and is actively engaged in training to hunt hogs as we speak.

[VirgilCaine]

I'd work her up to shotgun noise. Maybe start with rimfire, and praise her with alot of "goodgirls". Have someone (or you) hold her, or restrain her at a distance, then let loose with a louder gun. Bring her closer and closer, reassuring her all the while. Make it fun and exciting. Never heard of a Cat being gunshy.

If she'll respond to a "come" command or whistle, she should get the feel for how far you want her out ahead of you. If your up for it, make a check cord of 40' or so, hook it to her collar and when she gets to the end give it a sharp tug and say "close". Don't over do it, just a few minutes of it a day. Get her to slow down on the "close" command, or at least look back for ya. Should be good enough...helps around roads too.

Commercial scents will work. Nuthin' like the real thing tho'

good luck!

[ahenry]

Yorec,

That isn’t exactly my druthers (knocking the squirrel out of the tree), but the overwhelming majority of people seem to suggest that route. I haven’t done it yet, and when push comes to shove, I might just chicken out. Fact of the matter is, I’m no softy, but I hate to see an animal suffer needlessly. I’m certainly open to reasons why I should just shoot the animal dead…

[ahenry]

Capt,
I don’t want a hog dog. Catahoulas are best known for their use a cow dogs and hog dogs. I already know that she is has the makings of a cow dog. First time I took her to the ranch, she bunched and drove one herd on her own, without any input from me. I just don’t have the need for a cow dog. I think she’d be a natural hog dog as well, but you really need a couple of dogs to do that right, and I’m not interested in putting her at risk for an animal that I can shoot all I want, without a dog.

[ahenry]

Virgil,
If I am reading between the lines right, you’re suggesting a distance of about 40 feet for her to range while casting for a trail? Gonna take her to the ranch today and see how she does. I have to tread carefully though, since its hunting season and people are paying BIG money to come down here to hunt. Don’t want to mess up their hunts with a half trained dog running loose.

[yorec]

Well, you've got two of 'em already - you don't enjoy the cruelty of allowing your dog to finish off an animal. It is faster than letting a cripple die on it's own, but not as good as a clean humane shot.

Also, once your dog gets the idea it's OK (or worse, that he should) dispatch target creatures himself.... he will as often as he can. For him it is fun. Not for us or, even less, the critter.

Another reason - So far we've just talked of squirrels - full grown coons have been known to kill hounds. Just get them in the water and they'll drown the biggest dog by holding on to its nose and bearing down below the water. Dangerous situation for a lone dog the best swimmer can't hold thier weight and that of a large coon above water.

More? How about the damage to a coon's pelt - hair loss and holes? They don't call it "pullin' hair" for nothing.

It is possible to train without killing. It's the way I prefer and the best most knowledgeable gents on those sites will agree with me I think. The other methods, popular though they may be, are for those impatient few who want results right now. Impatience in trainning a dog is wrong and will have a cost to pay later. That cost can come in many forms, but it will always come due.

I'm not a squirrel hunter and unfamiliar with how a squirrel dog should even act, so can't advise on any aspect for that. Now ask me about lions...

[VirgilCaine]

I suggest the check cord to teach the "close" command. Let her range as far as you want, but use "close" to keep her at the distance you want her.

With pointers I use a "whoa" command to stop them, and a "heel" command to keep them next to me. But with your girl, "close" will work to keep her around while tracking.
Think of it as not quite a "come" command or a "whoa", your just saying to her, "hey, thats far enough, but keep sniffing"...of course you follow it with your best "goodgirl"

My dad uses it with his Blueticks, seems to work great, and that's how he taught it...hope it works for ya!

[kingudaroad]

I own a catahoula mix with no hunting training. This is a natural hunting dog. She has caught 3 live animals in the back yard(two possums and a squirrel) and she can pick out animals on a trail that I would have never seen. She will chase to kill any live animal including deer (dont have time for that story) but once her prey is dead or acting dead in the case of the possums, she no longer has interest in it. I can not get her to retrieve doves but she will chase them in the yard. I can't even imagine her capabilities if she had some formal training. But she is definetly a live animal hunter.

[Troponin]

Very good post. I have been thinking of training two of my dogs. One may not have a chance at being a hunting dog. She is a lab/shepard mix and is now 2. The thing about her is that she listens VERY well and never wanders more than 40 ft away from me, ever. Things to worry about it 1. Never fired a gun around her 2. Not sure if she even has the instinct for it.

My other pup is a 16 week old Cocker Spaniel. I know these dogs are generally not the first pick for hunting, but my wife did not want a large dog. I am going to start working on her now and hopefully by next season she may be able to go with me with a cord.

What do you guys/gals think?

[impact]

ahenry I have a big male Catahoula that is 11 months old. This dog is so easy to train. All he wants to do is learn and please and oh yah! Play! . I tought him in one night to fetch pine cones. All I have to say is! Rocky get a pine cone. And off he goes to find a pine cone. I want to train him to find lost deer. And hunt hogs and coon. he is a fantastic dog that likes people. All my buddies call him "big foot"

The next time someone shoots a deer I'm going to drag the feet and endtrails behind a ATV through the woods. Put Rocky on the trail and have him find the deer parts. And give him some of the scrap meat from the deer when he finds it. I'm sure he will learn real fast!

The first time I shot a gun around Rocky was with a hand gun and he did not care about the noise at all. I think he is going to be a good hunting dog!

Good luck with your dog. They are butt ugly but a fantastic dog that I love.

[Fremmer]

I have trained several dogs.

First, you need to teach the dog about the fridge. Start with the location, and gradually teach her to open the door. Beware of leaving leftover and/or any meat products where she can get to 'em -- those now have to be stored up top. Now you are ready to move to the next step.

The beer cans need to be located on a bottom shelf of the fridge so that she can grasp them easily. You'll want to use an easily identifiable beer can; I would suggest Budweiser (after all, you don't want her to be taking a can of cola out of the fridge) or some other beer can w/a distinct logo and color. You'll need to teach her to first gently grasp the can in her mouth; use a treat (doggie biscuit, etc.) to reinforece this behavior.

The next step (which is the most difficult) will be to train her to bring the beer can to you while you are in your lazyboy chair in the living room. This can be difficult because a stubborn dog will often run off, chomp down on the can, and lap up the beer -- all of my dogs have done this. A shock collar or some other device can be used to prevent this. You want her to bring the can directly to you and

Wait a minute. I just realized -- are you asking about training a dog for hunting?!? Ah heck. I don't know a thing about that!!!!

[ahenry]

Kingudaroad,

I own a catahoula mix with no hunting training. I can not get her to retrieve doves but she will chase them in the yard. I can't even imagine her capabilities if she had some formal training.

I don’t know if you want to train her to retrieve doves or not, but I have the same issues with my dog and retrieving. I think it stems from their intelligence, they get bored with the game. After a few times of retrieving whatever it is she’s supposed to retrieve, my dog will give me a look like, “I keep bringing it to you. If you’re too dumb to hold on to it, don’t expect me to keep bailing you out”, and that is pretty much the end of the game. I’ve found that retrieving different objects helps combat this. I’d bet your Catahoula is smart enough to figure out that each time you shoot a dove, she would be bringing you back something new.

Impact,

ahenry I have a big male Catahoula that is 11 months old. This dog is so easy to train. All he wants to do is learn and please and oh yah! Play! I want to train him to find lost deer. And hunt hogs and coon… The next time someone shoots a deer I'm going to drag the feet and endtrails behind a ATV through the woods. Put Rocky on the trail and have him find the deer parts. And give him some of the scrap meat from the deer when he finds it. I'm sure he will learn real fast!

You’re not kidding. I’ve never had a dog as easy to train or as smart as this one. In fact, I sometimes think she might be just a little too smart for a dog; she can quickly get bored with the “simple” doggie games like fetch. Normally I wouldn’t think it would be possible to train a 5 year old dog to hunt, but in a matter of about a day I taught her to go find various toys and bring them to me on command. I imagine doing what you’ve said with the entrails will work just fine. Seems like all you have to do to train these dogs is communicate the idea. Once they understand what you want they’re good to go.

Good luck with your dog. They are butt ugly but a fantastic dog that I love.

Well, there are a wide variety of looks with Catahoulas. There are lots of solid colorings (red, brown, black, yellow, white) as well as the leopard or “merle” colorings. Mine is a black and tan brindle, which is technically considered a “solid” color. The merle or leopard colorings include patchwork, tri-colored, quad-colored, gray, and black. Some have a natural bobtail and some have the more extended tail with that question mark kind of carry. Some have those blue eyes (the “glass eye”) that to me, look like ice. Some eyes are “cracked”, meaning the eye has one color with some amount of another color within it (BTW, that “cracked” eye is due to the merle gene, the same gene that causes the leopard colorings). Some Catahoulas have mismatched eyes. Some Catahoulas have slick coats, shaggy or coarse coats, and some have wooly coats. Catahoula looks range from a mutt sort of look all the way to a purebred coonhound sort of look. There is a look for all preferences.

[Hello123]

If the dog will hunt, hunt it. Put a vest on the dog to help it keep warm. I would imagine both the mix and the cocker would retrieve, but the cold water can really be brutal on them. I trust you are talking about duck hunting.

[Troponin]

Originally Posted by hello123

If the dog will hunt, hunt it. Put a vest on the dog to help it keep warm. I would imagine both the mix and the cocker would retrieve, but the cold water can really be brutal on them. I trust you are talking about duck hunting.

I will be hunting Pheasant with the dogs. I am not the original poster of the thead though, so I wasn't sure if you were asking me or him.

Funny thing today. I wanted to take my 16 week old out today to start playing some hunting games. In my excitement to start, I forgot that this was the first time she had been out of the yard. She didn't even know the concept of just going for a walk. She kept trying to turn back to the house. LOL Oh well, we have all spring and summer.

[Rich Lucibella]

Ahenry-
As a Dobie owner, before they were recognized and destroyed by AKC; as an Aussie Shep owner, before they were recognized and destroyed by AKC....I can tell you that you have one helluva a dog.

Catahoula's are nothing mysterious. They're natural nose hunters, workers and extraordinary testers of their owners. They're also really loyal.

Yes, you need to find that 5 year old pup a job. He'll tear up your life if you don't. So many good suggestions already. Listen to them...especially those who argue that his jobs should be centered around things he does naturally....not necessarily things you'd like him to do.

They are, as you point out, cattle and hog dogs. And I share your concern that a single hog Bay Dog is in enormous danger in the field. I've found that the Mighty Miko Wattah has a real penchant for tracking, though. If you're a hunter, you can always use a tracker for wounded or killed game.

Think about teaching him to track. Footsteps, hog scent....doesn't matter. They're both readily available. But the fact is, that pup will not be dissuaded from doing what is atavistically natural. Best you can do is direct it.

I may loose this 9 month old pup to the wrong Boar; but I'd be doing worse by giving him 15 years on a couch.
Rich

[impact]

ahenry my cat is yellow. He's a good looking dog! Till you look at his face! Looks like someone went crazy on his face with a Marks-a-lot. I got the dog from a rancher who has a working Catahoula. My boy Rocky looks just like his mother. But the mother has blue eyes and rocky has brown. and the places where the female is white rocky is black. On the face!

Rocky's dad was a AKA German Shepherd. The Female is a ACA Catahoula. I chose the puppy that looked more like the mother hoping to get more of a Cathoula. But I can see the German Shepherd blood in him in his size. I'm 5 foot 11. when I let Rocky out of the kennel he likes to jump on me. He puts his paws on my shoulders and smells my face. He is a big dog! I don't think Catahoulas get thet big? But other than that he looks just like a Catahoula.

[fhp490]

here are my new one