The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 14, 2013, 06:44 PM   #1
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
Brief information for reloading the AR15

Reloading for the AR 15 can appear simple just like reloading any other rifle. However because of it being a semi-automatic there are some extra caution or steps you should take. AR 15s are a little more sensitive to pressure and bolt thrust than a regular bolt action. In addition there is also a risk of slam- fire.

One of my points is that loads that work in bolt actions may be too hot for the AR 15. If possible use load data that developed for the .233 Rem AR 15 such as the one provided by Sierra. In any event I generally reduce my starting load by .07 grains for the AR compared with a bolt action.

I do recommend full-length size your cases every time. With the correct die this does not over stress the brass or even reduce the life of the brass. One thing to note is that there can be a variance is case capacity from different brands of brass, up to 2 grains. Thus your best load data may need to be changed for each brand of brass. Lapau is still considered the best brass.
The AR 15 really is not picky about powder and shoots very well with a wide variety. To put is simple match the powder with the bullet weight for the best performance. Some of my favorites are H335 for the 30-50g bullet, RL-7 for the 55g bullet and N540 or even Varget for the 60-70g bullet and RL-15 for the 70-80g bullet. But like I said it is not picky and I am sure if you ask someone else they would list completely different powders.

The 223 does use a small rife primer. My personal favorite it the Remington 7/12 BR primer while the CCI 400’s work just as well. I have heard the Wolf does well too though I have not used them. Now to that slam-fire issue, the AR 15 has a free floating firing pin. This means the firing pin will dent the primer on loading. Thus you really want a harder primer cup for safety reasons. The reports are that you should not really use Winchester primers (WSR).

One thing that can confuse a new reloaded is the .233 Rem uses a .224 diameter bullet. There are a lot of bullets on the market place for the AR15. As a general rule these work best. Barrel twist 1:14 = 55gr, Barrel Twist 1:12 = 65gr, Barrel Twist 1:9 = 73gr, Barrel twist 1.8 = 80gr and Barrel Twist 1:7 = 90gr.

My personal favorite load for general shooting?
Sierra 55gr FMBT / Remington 7 ½ BR Primer with RL-7 20.8 grains
Data – Sierra Reloading Manual 6th edition Starting = 20.1 Max = 21.5

My personal favorite fir varmint hunting?
Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tip / Remington 7 ½ BR primer with H335 24.5 grains
Data – Nosler Reloading Guide #6 Starting = 23.0 Max= 25.0
Farmland is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 07:38 PM   #2
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
So let’s cover the slam-fire. It was all in the firing pin when it started. After several different attempts to control this way back in the 1960’s with springs, and even partly restraining the firing pin the Colt idea worked which was to simply lighten the firing pins mas. Hey it worked by decreasing the force of its bounce off of the primer.

Did you know that back in 1941 the great M1 had its firing pin lighten by the Springfield Armory? Yes the M1 grand has a free floating firing pin thus it dents primers just like the AR 15.

Slam-fires can also be caused by a broken firing pin, something on the bolt face, the firing pin inertia or other issues. These can occur in or out of battery. I often wonder how many of the AR 15 blow ups are the result of the breech being unlock thus resulting in an out of battery slam-fire.

So to prevent this make sure your firing pin is in good condition, your primers are not riding high and on the safe side use a stronger / thicker primer cup.

Also best practices on reloading this round are extremely important. Make sure those rounds fit your chamber. Never assume just because your reloads work with your rifle it will work for another rifle.
Farmland is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:24 PM   #3
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,955
Quote:
One of my points is that loads that work in bolt actions may be too hot for the AR 15. If possible use load data that developed for the .233 Rem AR 15 such as the one provided by Sierra. In any event I generally reduce my starting load by .07 grains for the AR compared with a bolt action.
I am going to disagree with this statement for a couple reason.

First, Most AR-15 rifles are chambered in 5.56 and not 223 Rem. The 5.56 has a MAP of 62K psi while the 223 Rem as an MAP of 55K psi. By design alone the AR-15 can handle higher pressure ammo than the 223.

Next, your Sierra data will agree with you and it will also disagree with you. Depending which powder you select you will find higher charges in the AR and you may find higher charges in the Bolt action. No cut and dried AR = Less powder and 223 + more powder according to Sierra.

Last there is the New data from Ramshot and Accurate. They list several loads in both 223 Rem and 5.56 NATO. In all of their data the 5.56 (AR-15) runs at higher pressure, velocity and powder charge.

Now, if your AR is an odd-duck and chambered in 223, then by all means go light, but if it is a 5.56 then your light loads would be more of a personal preference than a True safety factor.
steve4102 is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:24 PM   #4
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
Now I’m sure you have read or even heard about blow ups with the AR 15. There are enough out there to make the first time reloader think twice about reloading. There are several reasons those have happen, I remember one was when the reloader made a powder mistake and used a pistol powder.

However if you watch some of the you tube videos there is always a feeding problem where e the shooter banks on the forward assist or the mag falls out, or the breech appears locked but nothing happens. You get my drift something isn’t right but the shooter is determined to get that round to fire.

My theory on this is poor brass quality control during reloading. Sue it could be a high primer, set back bullet, bullet seated to high or even an unnoticed squib. But I think the main cause is poor preparation of the brass that helps create an open breech combined with a slam fire.

Let’s face it blowing up a $1,000 plus AR 15 and in addition sending metal flying in all directions is not great for your health or budget. So I think the first step in reloading for the AR 15 is in the brass prep probably a step most reloaders fly through without a second thought. It is just so simple to chuck them in your feed tube of the Dillon 650 and let them fly out.
Farmland is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:28 PM   #5
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 3,082
Quote:
One of my points is that loads that work in bolt actions may be too hot for the AR 15.
An AR-15 will fire any SAAMI load safely and one with the 5.56 chamber will fire hotter NATO ammo safely. And load to hot for an AR would therefore be beyond SAAMI specs and too hot for a bolt gun.

I load 55 Grain NBT's with IMR 4895 and CCI Military grade primers for a very consistent load.

Quote:
Now I’m sure you have read or even heard about blow ups with the AR 15. There are enough out there to make the first time reloader think twice about reloading. There are several reasons those have happen, I remember one was when the reloader made a powder mistake and used a pistol powder.

However if you watch some of the you tube videos there is always a feeding problem where e the shooter banks on the forward assist or the mag falls out, or the breech appears locked but nothing happens. You get my drift something isn’t right but the shooter is determined to get that round to fire.
That is a reloader/shooter issue not a rifle issue.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:35 PM   #6
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
Hi Steve I will not necessarily disagree with you but it still needs to be at least considered.

With limited time and what I am trying to do with this thread I have to save the .223 Remington vs. 5.56x45--Chambering and Throat Considerations to another addition when I can support more time to it.

This is a link to some interesting information on this subject, well at least it touches on part of it.

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

Last edited by Farmland; May 14, 2013 at 10:27 PM.
Farmland is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 10:26 PM   #7
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
First of all everyone has their own system for prepping their brass. Some do more and some do less. What I am trying to cover is what is in my opinion necessary for prepping brass for the AR 15. I believe these steps give you the best solution to brass and your AR 15. Thus it is my opinion and not a rule.
1.) Clean you brass. There is no preferred method just get it clean.
2.) Then you need to resize the brass and de-prime. I think you should use a full length size die. In fact I think this is very important. Note if you are still having problems with your brass chambering you may need to use what they call a small base die for sizing. I like to do this on a single stage press. Yes it is slow but it gives me an opportunity to check each piece of brass for defects.
3.) An optional step would be to clean you primer pocket though I seldom do this.
4.) I think it is critical to then trim your brass. Most reloaders pass on this step when using a progressive press. Trimming your brass for the AR 15 helps to insure that you will have no problems plus give you one more time to check the cases. There are several ways to trim your brass, I personally use a hand held cheap Lee trimmer. Plus I debur.
5.) At this point I will wipe off the lube I used for resizing.
6.) While not necessary I hand prime to make sure the primers are set at the correct depth and gives me one more look at the brass.
7.) You can check them at this point with a case gage. I actually do this twice once now and once when loaded.
There are no shocking surprises here. While it may not be what many people are willing to do when they have a progressive press I find the little extra time is worth it for quality control. To be honest I do these steps for all of my brass in one day, saving the rest of the reloading for another time. I then place my brass in a ziplock bag until I am ready to finish the reloading. I will complete my reloading on my Dillon 650.

So what you have accomplished is a good quality control on the prepping of your brass to help it chamber correctly and hopefully eliminated any defects and reduced the possibility of the slam-fire.

Hey I know many people don’t go to this much trouble and have never had a problem or issue with their AR 15. But like I said I am into quality control and producing fast, cheap but the safest ammo I can for my AR 15. So maybe it takes me just a little longer doing it this way to load 1,000 rounds.

Do you have to follow these steps? Absolutely not but I feel they are important.
@ Note: There are other options for brass that still does not chamber and I did not intent to go over every aspect of this but I am sure people will add to this. As far as dies again everyone has a brand that works for them. In my case I use a RCBS full length 223 Rem die. I use a Hornady hand primer. I use a Lee Cutter and lock stud with the case length Gauge to tim and of course a Lee Chamfer tool to debur after trimming.
Farmland is offline  
Old May 14, 2013, 10:48 PM   #8
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
Something to reflect on. I will add finish the thread in a few days as I have to travel for a few days.

Keep safe>
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Food for thought.jpg (54.4 KB, 30 views)
Farmland is offline  
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05465 seconds with 11 queries