Redding Profile - Long Colt .45 - Seating Too Deep

Gary H · October 21, 2002, 11:19 PM

I'm using RCBS Carbide dies. My seating die is working just fine, but the Profile Die is also seating and not just crimping. In order to get the seating right, I need to have zero crimp and the slightest pressure can recess the bullet. I keep backing out the profile die, but then I'm not getting a crimp. Lubricating brass. Lead gas checked 250gr. RNFP. Any ideas?

swifter... · October 22, 2002, 09:30 PM

I guess my previous post got lost...

Anyhow, I think your prob is in the fit of your bullet to the resized brass. You don't say what diameter the bullets are sized to.

Try this: Take a round of resized, mouth belled brass with no primer or charge. Set a bullet in the bell and try to push it in with your thumb. You shouldn't be able to. You can get a rough idea of the force by placing it on a bathroom scale and pushing the bullet in, less than about 20 pounds and the case is either not sized enough or has hell's own springback.

If it does slide right in, you either need to size the case smaller, anneal it, or get a few thou bigger bullet.
Hope this helps,
I'll be interested to see the answers on this one...
Tom

Gary H · October 24, 2002, 01:30 AM

My bullets work out at .4525. and I can't readily push the bullet into the belled case. What I noted was that the deep cannelure seems to determine final OAL. The properly seated bullet has the case mouth about half-way into the cannelure. When I crimp, it is virtually impossible to crimp heavily enough to press the case mouth fully into the cannelure and instead the bullet is pressed down until the case mouth comes to rest on the forward end of the cannelure and this seems to be determining OAL. This is the first cannelured bullet that I have tried to load. The reloading manual that I have been using suggest a COL for a bullet without such a cannelure. Do you usually load a bullet with cannelure with the case mouth resting against the forward end of the cannelure?

swifter... · October 24, 2002, 01:47 PM

I generally rry to get the casemouth about midway in the cannelure, but mostly load my cast bulletscrimping into the crimp groove. Try seating and crimping in two operations?
I size my bullets to .454 FWIW, just to fit the chambers better.

Thinking about cannalures, though, I believe thst having the mouth in thr cannalure is the important thing, where is less so. I think they're meant for a roll crimp, to keep the bullet from backing out under recoil & it doesn't work! The grip of the casemouth is a lot more important, IMHO...

TOM

Gary H · October 24, 2002, 05:13 PM

What has me going is that the cannelure is rather deep. When placing the bullet in the mouth of the belled brass, it is almost impossible to press it into the case by hand. Once the bullet is seated, but not crimped, it is easy to push in further. The Cannelure depth seems to require one heck of a severe roll crimp to fully engage the bullet within the cannelure. Anyway, the crimping stage manages to further seat the bullet until the case mouth is against the most forward aspect of the cannelure. Maybe I have soft brass, or a poorly designed bullet.

stans · October 25, 2002, 07:09 AM

Quote:

When placing the bullet in the mouth of the belled brass, it is almost impossible to press it into the case by hand. Once the bullet is seated, but not crimped, it is easy to push in further.

Soft brass, maybe. Possibly a resizing die that is not fully resizing the case. Is your resizing die contacting the shell holder with the ram all the way up?

Steve Smith · October 25, 2002, 10:30 AM

My post was lost too.

Are you sizing your new brass before you try to seat a bullet? Sounds like your neck tension is non-existant. soft brass maybe, as Stans said. What brand?

If so:

Forget the cannelure, or stop trying to fill it with case mouth. Neck tension will hold much more than the rim in the cannelure. Just roll crimp it a little and try it.

Gary H · October 25, 2002, 10:46 AM

I am using an RCBS carbide die for sizing. The brass is marked R P and is new. Don't remember brand.

The load book that I'm looking at calls for a OAL of 1.60 and these guys are all 1.575. Other than reduced accuracy, any problems here?

Steve Smith · October 25, 2002, 11:43 AM

R-P is Remington-Peters, or Remington for short. That brass oughtta be fine, but anyone can make a bad batch...try some Starline if yo uhave some handy. Hell, I'll send you a few to try if you want. PM me your address. .025" shouldn't be any problem with a handgun as long as you're at least near the cannelure. You dont' even have to use the cannelure.

What I think is happening is that the crimp portion is catching the bullet at the end of your stroke and pushing it a little bit. (duh) Is your die clean? Try cleaning it and stop using the lube.

October 21, 2002, 11:19 PM	#1
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Redding Profile - Long Colt .45 - Seating Too Deep I'm using RCBS Carbide dies. My seating die is working just fine, but the Profile Die is also seating and not just crimping. In order to get the seating right, I need to have zero crimp and the slightest pressure can recess the bullet. I keep backing out the profile die, but then I'm not getting a crimp. Lubricating brass. Lead gas checked 250gr. RNFP. Any ideas? Last edited by Gary H; October 22, 2002 at 12:07 AM.

October 22, 2002, 09:30 PM	#2
swifter... Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: So. CA Mountains Posts: 540	I guess my previous post got lost... Anyhow, I think your prob is in the fit of your bullet to the resized brass. You don't say what diameter the bullets are sized to. Try this: Take a round of resized, mouth belled brass with no primer or charge. Set a bullet in the bell and try to push it in with your thumb. You shouldn't be able to. You can get a rough idea of the force by placing it on a bathroom scale and pushing the bullet in, less than about 20 pounds and the case is either not sized enough or has hell's own springback. If it does slide right in, you either need to size the case smaller, anneal it, or get a few thou bigger bullet. Hope this helps, I'll be interested to see the answers on this one... Tom __________________ There are damn few situations so screwed up that adding government to them will not make 'em worse... The best homeland security is an armed & informed citizenery! Molon Labe!

October 24, 2002, 01:47 PM	#4
swifter... Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: So. CA Mountains Posts: 540	I generally rry to get the casemouth about midway in the cannelure, but mostly load my cast bulletscrimping into the crimp groove. Try seating and crimping in two operations? I size my bullets to .454 FWIW, just to fit the chambers better. Thinking about cannalures, though, I believe thst having the mouth in thr cannalure is the important thing, where is less so. I think they're meant for a roll crimp, to keep the bullet from backing out under recoil & it doesn't work! The grip of the casemouth is a lot more important, IMHO... TOM __________________ There are damn few situations so screwed up that adding government to them will not make 'em worse... The best homeland security is an armed & informed citizenery! Molon Labe!

October 25, 2002, 10:30 AM	#7
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	My post was lost too. Are you sizing your new brass before you try to seat a bullet? Sounds like your neck tension is non-existant. soft brass maybe, as Stans said. What brand? If so: Forget the cannelure, or stop trying to fill it with case mouth. Neck tension will hold much more than the rim in the cannelure. Just roll crimp it a little and try it. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

October 25, 2002, 11:43 AM	#9
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	R-P is Remington-Peters, or Remington for short. That brass oughtta be fine, but anyone can make a bad batch...try some Starline if yo uhave some handy. Hell, I'll send you a few to try if you want. PM me your address. .025" shouldn't be any problem with a handgun as long as you're at least near the cannelure. You dont' even have to use the cannelure. What I think is happening is that the crimp portion is catching the bullet at the end of your stroke and pushing it a little bit. (duh) Is your die clean? Try cleaning it and stop using the lube. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

October 24, 2002, 01:30 AM	#3
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	My bullets work out at .4525. and I can't readily push the bullet into the belled case. What I noted was that the deep cannelure seems to determine final OAL. The properly seated bullet has the case mouth about half-way into the cannelure. When I crimp, it is virtually impossible to crimp heavily enough to press the case mouth fully into the cannelure and instead the bullet is pressed down until the case mouth comes to rest on the forward end of the cannelure and this seems to be determining OAL. This is the first cannelured bullet that I have tried to load. The reloading manual that I have been using suggest a COL for a bullet without such a cannelure. Do you usually load a bullet with cannelure with the case mouth resting against the forward end of the cannelure?

October 24, 2002, 05:13 PM	#5
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	What has me going is that the cannelure is rather deep. When placing the bullet in the mouth of the belled brass, it is almost impossible to press it into the case by hand. Once the bullet is seated, but not crimped, it is easy to push in further. The Cannelure depth seems to require one heck of a severe roll crimp to fully engage the bullet within the cannelure. Anyway, the crimping stage manages to further seat the bullet until the case mouth is against the most forward aspect of the cannelure. Maybe I have soft brass, or a poorly designed bullet.

October 25, 2002, 10:46 AM	#8
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	I am using an RCBS carbide die for sizing. The brass is marked R P and is new. Don't remember brand. The load book that I'm looking at calls for a OAL of 1.60 and these guys are all 1.575. Other than reduced accuracy, any problems here?