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July 15, 2009, 07:24 PM | #1 |
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Tactically is this how it should be done?
This is an incident that occurred in Richmond, VA, I believe on Saturday. Note how the victims were telling the the OC to kill him. Note his reaction. He only used the force necessary to stop the threat. Is this how it should be done?
http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...0016/#comments Richmond Store owner grateful for man who shot robber Advertisement CARYTOWN - 1 bdrm, balcony,lC/A, W/D, DW, $725 CHESTER/288 AREA 2 bdrms., all appl., heat CHESTERFIELD - Pvt. home, lg. furn. rm., some CHURCH HILL/ HIGHLAND PARK, 3 to 4 bdrm,, from Church Hill & Highland Park - Summer Special! More Rentals 7912 ALVARADO ROAD- $329,950-OPEN 2-4 Immac. BLACKSTONE 45 ACRES $69,900 434-298-7909 CARGUN PROPERTIES BUCKINGHAM 50 acres, 5 parcels. $149,000 Open House 2-4 7026 Catwalk Court 4 BR Resource Realty Services CHERRYDALE- 6337 Fox-rock Ln., immac.¾bdrm or View More Featured Homes Text size: small | medium | large By Reed Williams Published: July 15, 2009 Three days after Mustapha Kassou was shot in an attempted robbery in his store in South Richmond, he said that he owed his life to the man who ended the ordeal by shooting the robber. Yesterday, Kassou returned to Golden Food Market on Jefferson Davis Highway for the first time since he was shot there Saturday afternoon. Kassou said the masked robber walked into the store shortly after 1 p.m. and seemed startled to see about eight people inside. The robber told everyone to get on the floor, and then he fired at Kassou and hit him twice, he said. "When the guy shot me, I was waiting for him to finish me," Kassou said. "I was knocked down behind the cash register." The other armed man pulled a six-shot revolver from his holster and told the robber to drop his weapon, Kassou said. When he didn't, authorities say, the man shot the robber once in the torso, took the robber's gun and called police. Witnesses told police it appeared the robber ran out of bullets and tried to reload. Some people in the store told the man to finish off the robber, witnesses reported. "Everyone was telling him to kill him," Kassou said, "but he said, 'I can't do it.'" Saturday's incident was the second such shooting at the store in a month. The two shootings at Golden Food and the fatal shooting of a shopkeeper last month in another store just blocks away have alarmed some nearby residents, although police say the number of violent crimes along the Jefferson Davis corridor has been declining since May. Councilwoman Reva Trammell, whose 8th District includes the corridor, and police Cmdr. Steve Drew will hold a public safety meeting for Jeff Davis-area business owners tonight from 6 to 8 at the Satellite Restaurant, 4000 Jefferson Davis Highway. Kassou was released from the hospital Sunday, but he was limping and in obvious pain yesterday. He sat inside his store with family members, but he kept the front door locked. He said the shootings have made him scared of almost everyone. He said he was struggling with whether he should reopen the store. He does not know how he would support his wife and two children if he chooses to keep the store closed. Kassou said he is considering returning to his native Morocco. He said he is an American citizen and has lived here about 20 years and loves this country. "It's not worth it anymore," he said, adding that he will arm himself if he reopens the store. Kassou said he still is alive because of God -- and because of the man who drew a .45-caliber Western-style revolver and ended Saturday's robbery by shooting the gunman. "He saved a lot of lives," Kassou said. "He was like an angel who came to save everybody." Authorities say the robber was wounded after he shot Kassou and fired on customers. Neither Kassou nor the police would identify the man who shot the robber. Authorities said an initial investigation indicates the man acted lawfully when he shot the robber. Police have charged James Grooms III, 30, of South Richmond with attempted robbery, use of a firearm and possession of a firearm by a felon. He remained in critical condition last night at VCU Medical Center. A woman who said she is one of Grooms' relatives declined to comment when reached by phone yesterday. |
July 15, 2009, 07:39 PM | #2 | |
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"Authorities said an initial investigation indicates the man acted lawfully when he shot the robber." Whew! Bet they needed the rocket scientists to figure that one out.
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Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 15, 2009 at 08:29 PM. |
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July 15, 2009, 08:27 PM | #3 |
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Shooting in Richmond:
Thank God for CCW in that incident. No telling how many folks would have been shot if the robber was not stopped by this citizen and his conceal carry pistol. Richmond, VA is my home town and I feel for the store owner and his family. Being as this business has been robbed (prior to this hold up as well), it is probably best the owner does arm himself before re-opening his store....
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July 15, 2009, 09:14 PM | #4 |
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Why the heck give a warning? I'll never figure that one out. Folks watching too much TV maybe?
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July 15, 2009, 09:29 PM | #5 | |
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I think the more interesting fact is that everyone in the store told him to finish the guy off...
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And it's Killer Angel... as in the book |
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July 15, 2009, 09:51 PM | #6 | |
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July 15, 2009, 10:03 PM | #7 | ||
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Either way, to answer the question, I believe it was artfully done, the man exercised great restraint and finesse.
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July 15, 2009, 10:16 PM | #8 |
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I'd like to know what kind of "Cowboy gun" he was carrying. If he used a single action six shooter it would be interesting to know.
I've been thinking about carrying a birdseye grip single action sheriff type model. I know that isn't a very popular choice for CC, and many people would think it an unwise and insane choice, but when I pick up a single action six gun it's like an extension of my arm, a feeling I never get with simiautos or even modern revolvers. I "know" where the bullet's going to hit, I don't have to use the sights, it's simply a matter shooting what I'm looking at. With simi's that "extension of the arm" feeling isn't there and I have to rely on the sights to hit what I want to. I guess it all comes down to what one's comfortable with. If things went down as were described, it sounds like the man handled himself and the situation very well. Last edited by Trooper Tyree; July 15, 2009 at 10:27 PM. |
July 15, 2009, 11:25 PM | #9 |
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The man did a great job, no doubt abt that. But how come the shooter is not identified? Did he wait for the police or left the place? Could any one enlighten me what would happen if a person legally shot some one & leave the scene without informing the authorities and wait for their arrival? I mean can charges be pressed against him(later of course because sooner or later he may be discovered). Thanks
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July 15, 2009, 11:28 PM | #10 |
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As much as I'd love to know details on the gun, the shooter SHOULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED!!!
The robber may have equally twisted kinfolk or fellow gangbangers.
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July 15, 2009, 11:44 PM | #11 |
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Check out this posted comment to the story:
--- Posted by ( nostretstranger ) on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 pm IF U KNEW MR.GROOMS, U WOULD KNOW THAT THIS IS (WAS) NOT HIS CHARACTER. IT’S SAD TO KNOW THAT YET ANOTHER LIFE HAS BEEN TAKEN FOR A SENSELESS CRIME. MY HEART AND PRAYERS GOES OUT TO THIS MAN AND HIS FAMILY. THE INDIVIDUAL THAT THINKS HE DID SOCIETY A FAVOR, U DIDN’T…U ONLY HAVE TO FACE FATE ON JUDGMENT DAY. I HOPE AND PRAY U CAN JUSTIFY THIS TO UR MAKER, (AND NOT YOUR PARENTS EITHER!!) THERE WAS NO HERO IN THIS SHAME ONLY A TRAGEDY. ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL LOST TO SOCIETY AND TURNED TO THE STREETS. MR.GROOMS WILL ALWAYS BE LOVED AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HIS GOOD MEMORIES WILL BE CHERISHED…... --- Jim again. You want the author of THAT little screed knowing the name of the CCW holder?
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July 15, 2009, 11:54 PM | #12 |
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You think that's bad, read some of the comments at the end of this article.
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/th...param=Page%3d2 The article says "Neither Kassou nor the police would identify the man who shot the robber." Would, not could, I'm sure they know who he is they just wouldn't release who it was. |
July 16, 2009, 12:29 AM | #13 |
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Single action wheelgun?
If so: STYLE POINTS, BAYBEE!
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July 16, 2009, 02:52 AM | #14 |
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Just imagine the Police asking the customers who have just had their lives saved (they would think) by a man with a "Cowboy gun" to describe the "Cowboy"
"What guy with a gun?" "I was looking the other way" I bet 4 where in the toilet! |
July 16, 2009, 11:09 AM | #15 |
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Deleted a few off-topic posts.
Please stick to the subject in the OP. Hijacking is rude. pax |
July 16, 2009, 11:53 AM | #16 |
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How? Can't say. Wasn't there.
If I had to venture a guess, I do not think I would have found myself giving a warning. Matter of fact, I really, really don't think so! What one cannot know is whether the man with the man who saved the day might have been able to shoot first. Mr. Kassou might have been better off. |
July 17, 2009, 05:45 AM | #17 |
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Good guy handled it extremely well. Whether or not to speak, is up to the individual. Not listening to the peanut gallery telling him to finish off the bad guy was paramount. Once the bad guy is no longer a threat, you've reached your limit on deadly force. If good guy had executed (yes, it would have been an execution) the downed bad guy, the good guy would be no better than the bad guy.
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July 17, 2009, 07:29 AM | #18 | |
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July 17, 2009, 08:34 AM | #19 | |
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Tactically unsound, but very VERY human.
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July 17, 2009, 09:21 AM | #20 | |
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"Posturing" takes all kinds of forms, some of which are tactically sound, some are so very NOT. Verbally challenging an "active shooter" falls deep in the "not" category, but "posturing" to avoid a lethal fight is hard-wired into our genes. So it happens a lot. Damned few people can go from "zero to kill" even under serious threat. You have to mentally work out the morality of the situation beforehand so you're not trying to do so when it's a two-way shooting range. And THEN you have to roll-play the hell out of it if you want even a chance of it working out as well as it did in this case. Plain fact: humans are NOT hard-wired to kill. Believe it.
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Jim March |
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July 17, 2009, 09:36 AM | #21 | |
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July 17, 2009, 09:51 AM | #22 | |
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On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
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July 17, 2009, 11:51 AM | #23 |
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Strickly from a tactics standpoint I'd say the warning was a serious mistake unless it happened while the BG was reloading. Still not all that tactically sound but the other guy being in the middle of a reload is a bit mitigating. He did good though. In the end the good guy accomplished his goal, and it's hard to argue with success.
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July 17, 2009, 10:30 PM | #24 | |
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I just got this in a VCDL update from Philip Van Cleave (VCDL President). I thought it was worth posting here as it has some interesting points, and does a lot to clear up the situation (not just what the news tells you). Sorry its a bit long, but there is no way to directly link to it.
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And it's Killer Angel... as in the book Last edited by KLRANGL; July 17, 2009 at 10:39 PM. |
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July 18, 2009, 05:55 AM | #25 |
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Holy crap...trigger broke so he slip-hammered it. This would have been an Italian replica, likely Uberti or Pietta, possibly Armi San Marco if he's had it a while?
I'm glad I pack a Ruger. Although to be fair, the reason slip-hammering worked is because the gun had no transfer bar or hammer block safety. It's still possible to carry a Remington fully loaded, as the cylinder has between-position notches to lower the hammer between live rounds, a practice North American Arms revived in their mini-revolvers. OR he was doing "five up carry", hammer down on the empty. Either way, he solved the matter with four rounds (and three hits) so it hardly matters. EXCELLENT shooting and gun handling. The guy knew his gun and knew how to compensate for damage to it and keep fighting. Sounds like excellent use of cover, too.
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