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February 2, 2013, 08:35 AM | #301 |
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The problem with mandatory background checks is the stigma of labeling the firearm as an object of evil, that we must determine that the end user has good intentions before trusting them with such devices. Society has moved this direction already. Look at the implementation of "gun free zones" and outlawing the practice of certain types of carry or magazines and ergonomic/cosmetic features. The object itself has been condemned as a means of destruction rather than salvation which is the status it should hold as per the founders in their provision of the second amendment. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington spoke highly of firearms as liberty's teeth and the means by which man maintains his freedom. Background checks are the foot in the door that could be the vehicle for further infringement of persons to exercise their right.
The biggest issue at hand, as is evidenced by the recent tragedies, is classifications of mental illness and how it will impact our ability to own firearms. Diagnosing a mental illness may take weeks and even then the initial diagnosis may be incorrect thanks to the myriad of symptoms that overlap. Someone with dissociative identity disorder being diagnosed with schizophrenia will forever carry the label of schizophrenic in their medical history. A major depressive episode diagnosis could follow you and interfere with purchases, all because your mother passed after a battle with cancer and you were grief stricken for a month. Who decides what mental illnesses prevent firearm ownership and what happens with a misdiagnosis? Who also decides which of us needs a psychological evaluation to determine competency to own and operate a firearm? I certainly don't want the government making those decisions, much less letting the IRS have control of my healthcare. (Oh, wait, too late... )
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February 2, 2013, 09:05 AM | #302 | |
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Here if i get stoped by police it takes a radio call and they have all they need to know about me. They have background checks in the uk for firearms i have no problem with that. If people think they can't do the same in America they are wrong. So if people are against background checks there may be plenty of reasons for that but the government not being able to is not one. |
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February 2, 2013, 09:38 AM | #303 | |
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If we roll over and let it, we have only ourselves to blame. |
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February 2, 2013, 10:41 AM | #304 | |
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February 2, 2013, 10:58 AM | #305 | ||
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I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
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February 2, 2013, 11:01 AM | #306 | |
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The point is- people were elected into office and supported these things. If other people were elected who did not support them, they would not happen. It all comes back to the people who allowed these things to happen. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing. It's not being productive. |
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February 2, 2013, 01:30 PM | #307 | ||
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Last edited by manta49; February 2, 2013 at 02:22 PM. |
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February 2, 2013, 03:56 PM | #308 | |
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I'm not kidding myself about anything, and it's presumptive of you to think so. |
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February 2, 2013, 04:34 PM | #309 | |
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For a country that's supposed to have our right to keep and bear arms uninfringed, we sure have a strange way of showing it... & getting sadly stranger every day. However - just because we have gun control is no reason we should swallow more... |
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February 2, 2013, 06:13 PM | #310 |
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manta49, should a rape victim, having been raped once by a neighbor, just shrug and invite him back to her home?
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February 2, 2013, 07:04 PM | #311 | |
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February 3, 2013, 05:49 AM | #312 | |
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I just might use that on Facebook but "soften" it up a bit by changing it to a mugging. (We really do need a "two thumbs up" smiley" |
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February 3, 2013, 07:12 AM | #313 | ||
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Last edited by manta49; February 3, 2013 at 07:27 AM. |
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February 3, 2013, 08:03 AM | #314 | |
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February 3, 2013, 08:18 AM | #315 | |||
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I'm sort of lost.... Quote:
When my kids were growing up, my Winchester .30/30 was loaded and hanging on the wall of the living room. My kids had about as much interest in it as they did in weeding the yard of dandilions.. "Safety" is a state of mind/a learned activity - not some lock on something.. |
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February 3, 2013, 08:46 AM | #316 | |
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I am not even going to pretend to know what UK politicians' thoughts and priorities are. Therefore I won't try to discuss them. |
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February 3, 2013, 09:03 AM | #317 | |||
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Last edited by manta49; February 3, 2013 at 09:10 AM. |
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February 3, 2013, 10:49 AM | #318 | |
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My .30/30 was on the wall (5 feet or so high)- out of reach of "small" children. Sticking a loaded pistol on top of a bookshelf or dresser was also common. Heck, back when I was a kid, just setting foot in a parents bedroom w/out them there was such a forbidden act it was unheard of. A loaded gun atop a dresser in a parents bedroom was as secure as it would have been locked away in Ft. Knox. Why? It had nothing to do with "gun control" or "common sense". It was all about, as Aretha sang - R_E_S_P_E_C_T. Kids respected their parents,,,,no,,,,kids respected EVERYBODY's parents. Somewhere along the way - that concept became infected with a contagious disese. It's not dead yet - but - it's going under at an alarming rate. Where I'm not clear is this: "At no stage did i say there should be further gun control in America" is what you siad. But earlier you said: "What makes you think they will prevent further controls" I'm reading the second statement as you saying that further controls are inevitable. Then coming back and saying that you didn't say there would be further controls. I'm a bit confused here as to exactly what it is you're trying to convey. |
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February 3, 2013, 04:47 PM | #319 | |
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We had all better hope some new things are legislated to screen for wackos. Otherwise we ALL (not just the wackos) stand to loose more and more gun rights. I'm not a wacko, and I have no problems with the govt screening for wackos. If y'all aren't wacko, neither should you. If we can't get behind common sense solutions to keep guns out of the hands of wackos, then someone else will come up with solutions for us.... Don't believe me? They are working on some stuff now -- I don't like most of it, but universal background checks is one good idea. If you guys don't support something that makes sense, you might not like what they come up with. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Even if nothing happens this time around, all it will take is for a couple more crack pots to crack off... When enough people get hurt, a tipping point will eventually be reached. LaPiere is wrong about universal background checks. Think for yourselves folks. Don't be sheeple. LaPierre is actually more to blame than anyone (including Obama and Feinstein) for current .22 ammo shortage. He has many folks believing that Obama is coming for every bullet in the country, even .22 ammo evidently. He has many gun owners so afraid that they can't think clearly. Unlike most of you, I do believe universal background checks can help stop mass shootings. Like most of you, I do not believe banning this gun or that gun or magazines is going to help in any significant way. |
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February 3, 2013, 04:56 PM | #320 |
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Lapierre is rallying up all gunowners to stand (generally) united against yet another ban. A side-effect of this is that gunowners of many stripes are buying up all the 22, exercising a legal *choice* to do so.
"They're not going to take *your* gun" is true in that at any given moment only a small percentage of gunowners' interests are under threat. I don't think it preferable for the NRA to do battle with the Feinsteins with only 5% of its strength. (Or whatever comes after, with the 5% they choose to fu** over next time). He's getting some use out of *some* of those "duck hunters" every TV pundit seems to be in the last 2 months (well, not the ones on TV, I assume there are some in real life too). Hang together. . . hang separately. . . all that crap. Last edited by Battler; February 3, 2013 at 05:02 PM. |
February 3, 2013, 05:01 PM | #321 | |
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1. Stem the growth in the problem (new people buying more guns). 2. Mopping up the problem The most important thing in universal checks (logistically registration) is to pin the gun (and followup redtape to keep it, and ultimate surrendur) to a person, get rid of the "I sold it" crap they'd otherwise face. |
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February 3, 2013, 05:51 PM | #322 | |
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The concept of UBCs has emotional appeal, but go through the specifics of how they would work to show they have a rational basis. FFLs are compelled to do background checks because they have to account for inventory, both incoming and outgoing. It becomes obvious very quickly if a dealer is skipping background checks. Many gun owners only do purchases and sales through FFLs and are already covered by background checks. What would compel other individuals to do background checks on transactions with family members, friends, or total strangers and how much benefit would be derived from background checks in each of those categories? |
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February 3, 2013, 05:55 PM | #323 |
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I'm confused. Can't we use an FFL for personal sales right now? If you want to sell a firearm to another individual why not just use an ffl and do a recorded transfer?
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February 3, 2013, 05:58 PM | #324 |
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I think most TFLers who have supported the checks don't have data to justify their support; I think their "support" is more often just the throwing of somebody else's baby to the wolves, in hopes of protecting their EBRs or high capacity pistols and magazines.
I also think that any subset that allows themselves to break ranks will find the antis use a different divide and conquer strategy in future, but will eventually get all the babies if those subsets don't learn better. |
February 3, 2013, 06:11 PM | #325 | |
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