9mm reloading question

[MEATSAW]

What's the difference in the sizing operation from a straight walled case (like .45 Auto) from a tapered case like a 9mm Luger? I read somewhere that because of the tapered case it's best to use case lube on those even with carbide dies. Does this hold any water? I have a set of Lee 9mm dies that I've been using but if it's better to use case lube I want to do what's right! Thanks.

[jimbob86]

I've never used any case lube with my 9mm carbide dies ..... never had a stuck case.

The taper on the 9mm case is so slight I never noticed it ...reloaded thousands of rounds using the same methods I loaded .45ACP with ..... no issues at all ....

[condor bravo]

No do not waste time and effort by lubing 9mms. They require hardly any sizing effort whatsoever.

[Nick_C_S]

What's the difference in the sizing operation from a straight walled case (like .45 Auto) from a tapered case like a 9mm Luger?

None. The 9x19 is so small and the taper so minimal, that for the most part, it behaves like a straight wall. It's got a bit of a "funny feel" to it when sizing, but that's really about it.

I read somewhere that because of the tapered case it's best to use case lube on those even with carbide dies.

It's always best to use lube. But it's certainly not necessary - just like with 45 ACP. It's optional. Either way is "right." Few loaders lube their pistol cases (9mm or otherwise) when they have carbide dies. I happen to be one of those few.

(I only load for pistol; and for all the common calibers. Personally, I lube my cases, even though all my dies are carbide. But that's just me. I wouldn't bother except I know I'm going to tumble them with SS pins afterward anyway, to get 'em nice n clean.)

[jag2]

I do and my question is why not. It is noticeably easier pull the handle, I've had some brass that would tend to bulge out a little near the base I think partly because of the friction. I use just a quick spray of Hornady One Shot and then back to the tumbler for a final cleaning. Try it, you will feel the difference.

[MEATSAW]

So is the main difference in lube vs no lube just the ease of sizing with no effect on actual performance of the round? I've sized a few hundred without lube and it seems fairly typical of pistol rounds. But if using lube will change the attributes of the case and improve accuracy/function I will consider altering my methods. Seems picky, just wondering if there is a difference in function/reliability/accuracy one way versus another

[Nick_C_S]

So is the main difference in lube vs no lube just the ease of sizing with no effect on actual performance of the round?

To the best of my knowledge, there is no difference in the performance of the round.

[GJSchulze]

I find it much easier to pull the handle when I give my 9mm cases a quick spray of One-shot lube. A can lasts for thousands of cases. I have to wonder if those that say it makes no difference have ever tried it. It could be if you are strong enough, you can't detect a difference.

[Snyper]

I have to wonder if those that say it makes no difference have ever tried it

It makes no difference in the end product, or how it fits and functions.

It might make it a little easier to size, but the whole point of buying carbide dies is so you can skip the lubrication and subsequent cleaning steps

[sawdustdad]

I don't lube any of my pistol brass--9mm, .38, .357, .44. I use a Square Deal progressive press w/ carbide dies. I tumble the cases before hand so they are nice and shiny before loading. 9mm, .38 takes very little effort to size, but the .44s take more, so I might try a bit of spray lube. I obviously can't tumble them afterwards to remove the lube (without interrupting the process) so I haven't up to this point.

[lamarw]

I have used a "smitherin" of case lube on 9mm brass for years now while resizing. I brought this up the forum here several years ago. It makes the process easier as stated above while cranking our the cases. I put a little on my finger and hit about every ten or so pieces of brass with it.

After the brass is resized and de-primed, it is placed in my ultrasonic for cleaning. This cleaning process removes the case lube along with cleaning the primer pocket, and the inside and outside of the brass. While reloading, I do not use the case lube again. The 9mm is the only handgun round I do this with.

[grumpa72]

Many thousands of rounds with a turret press on 9mm and never a drop of lube or anything like it. I haven't felt the need for it and, if you need lube to ease the pull of the handle, maybe you need to eat more spinach like my buddy Popeye!

Seriously, there isn't any need for lube on any pistol case, imo.

[guncheese]

i started using lube on pistol cases when i started using a progressive press
it gives a much more consistent action which lets you make sure your getting to top of the cycle the same every time
it helps

i made my own lube (1oz lanolin to a qt of 91% isopropyl in a old spray bottle
i dont spray the cases, i give the inside of a ice cream bucket a couple squirts then put a couple hundred cases in and toss them about before they go in the collator
just that little bit makes all the difference

[mizer67]

In addition to speeding up operation on a progressive press and reducing the effort to size the cases required, lubing a straight walled pistol case (even with carbide dies) produces more consistent results.

Many actions on a progressive press (seating, crimp, belling) require identical resistance during the upstroke to produce the most consistent results. Lubing the cases produces a more consistent upstroke round to round.

If you're out to make the most consistent ammo you can make, you should lube your rounds.

If you're of the opinion that the amount of consistency gained won't make a difference in your results on target due to ability, equipment, distance etc. then drive on.

[mikld]

This discussion comes around every so often and the consensus seems to be yep, lube for carbide dies is good and nope not needed. IMO, it's a personal thing, if it makes a difference to the operator, do it, regardless if you're called a muscle man and can't feel. Neither method is more "Manly" and a lot will depend on the press leverage (I have an old "C" style C-H that I size with, and lubing my .44 Magnum brass is definitely the easier, softer way). If you only use the "no lube" carbide dies with no lube, cool! If you choose to use lube on your brass run through a "no lube" carbide die, cool. In either instance, the Reloading Police ain't gonna kick down your door and confiscate your ammo 'cause you done it wrong...

[MEATSAW]

So what I am getting is that the taper on the 9mm isn't enough to warrant a difference versus a straight walled case. Then it just becomes a matter of personal preference. I might just take 50 cases and lightly mist the outside with lanolin/alcohol homebrew lube and see how I like it.

Good info here!

[GJSchulze]

skip the lubrication and subsequent cleaning steps

I use Hornady One-Shot case lube lightly, on one side of the case. There is no need to clean the case afterward.

[hot chili powder]

I thought the whole idea with carbide dies was so you WOULDN'T have to lub the cases.......I sure don't and don't know why anyone would.

[gwpercle]

Not so much a right or wrong thing but what work's thing.
When using carbide dies and bench mounted Pacific Super C press , no lube.
Lots of leverage and it's not necessary. Cases go right in and big press with long handle pulls em right out.

Inside, at my kitchen table with my Lee Hand Press, no compound linkage and no long handle here, they go in easy enough but pulling them back out is easier with the cases sprayed with a little Lee Case lube mixed with alcohol . Just eases the process here.

So if it makes things easier it's OK to do it.
If you don't need easy-in, easy-out, it's OK not to lube em.
Gary

[Nick_C_S]

So what I am getting is that the taper on the 9mm isn't enough to warrant a difference versus a straight walled case.

Right.

Then it just becomes a matter of personal preference.

Right. It's all about how you want to recondition your brass.

I might just take 50 cases and lightly mist the outside with lanolin/alcohol homebrew lube and see how I like it.

Go for it. Handloading may be our final bastion of pure freedom - you get to do what you want.

Speaking for myself, I've been handloading for 30 years. And in that time, my brass reconditioning process has evolved. Nowdays, I like nice, clean, shiny, like-near-new brass when I saddle up to my bench for some loading. But that's just me.

I was "anti-lube" not because of the extra effort of applying lube; but because I didn't want to deal with removing the lube after the resize. Then, I got into SS pin tumbling (done after resize and flair). Once SS pin tumbling was part of my reconditioning regimen, I asked the logical question: Since I'm now cleaning after reconditioning, why not lube during resizing? So here I am now - lubing my straight wall pistol cases (and 9mm). It greatly reduces the press handle effort. And I'm thinking that's a good thing - carbide die or not.

[serf 'rett]

My batch method for pistol:

1. Starts with punching out the primers on my shop drill press.

2. The cases are then wet tumbled in the stainless steel pins. I have a rather quick method of dumping the wet brass into trays for drying. The method will result in having the headstamps facing up, which makes it easy to sort the dry brass by maker. The cleaning process will often reveal problems with the brass, such as neck splits. Only clean brass goes into my dies.

3. When I size and expand, in batches, I will apply some Imperial Die Wax to lubricate to brass. I touch my thumb and two fingers to the wax, pick up a case and twirl it between my fingers to distribute the wax. The finger tips are re-waxed about every ten rounds. In this process, I visually inspect the case and tactilely feel for abnormalities. This especially important for 40S&W because it could have been shot in a chamber which had an unsupported area at the feed ramp. The brass is also checked during the sizing and expanding steps. After sizing thousands of pieces of brass, you develop a “feel” for what is “right” and what feels wrong. A split case feels different. Clean cases and a touch of wax helps to develop this “feel”.
Why lube since I use carbine dies? It dates back to engineering classes when we had detailed discussions concerning deformation of materials. Once the molecular structure has been changed, it cannot easily be returned to the original condition. The simple illustration is - bend short section of a wire coat hanger, then try to remove that bend. The structure has been modified with compression and elongation of the metal. Simply put, that area of deformation has been “work hardened”. Would the same thing be happening when you “power through” your sizing operation? I suspect it does. I also suspect it has little effect on anything other than life of the brass – which is only important to us Certified Brass Rats.

4. Here is where I digress somewhat from normal “apply lube/remove lube crowd”. I don’t remove lube. Since I didn’t slather on copious quantities, roll the brass in liquid or spray my cases, I just bag ‘em for later use. I view the tad of wax as long term storage protection and short term extraction expeditor.

[GJSchulze]

The method will result in having the headstamps facing up

Can you tell us how to do that?

I sort by headstamps, but I use my brass in batches by HS so that when I shoot I have only one HS. After I shoot I take about 7 of them in hand at a time to look for the "wrong" headstamps. These I collect in another bag and unless they are ones I have a "dirty" bin for, I throw them in a container to be cleaned and sorted.

[lee n. field]

What's the difference in the sizing operation from a straight walled case (like .45 Auto) from a tapered case like a 9mm Luger? I read somewhere that because of the tapered case it's best to use case lube on those even with carbide dies. Does this hold any water? I have a set of Lee 9mm dies that I've been using but if it's better to use case lube I want to do what's right! Thanks.

I don't use case lube with any of my pistol round carbide sizing dies. Never had any slightest problem.

[lee n. field]

None. The 9x19 is so small and the taper so minimal, that for the most part, it behaves like a straight wall.

So what I am getting is that the taper on the 9mm isn't enough to warrant a difference versus a straight walled case.

Just FYI, there's a current thread where a poster is making a very big deal about the 9mm taper, and the problems it supposedly causes. Everyone else is skeptical.

[MEATSAW]

Okay well after my little experiment with loading 50 rounds using case lube on the 9mm I can't believe its happened but I am not converted. Wow! Its hard to describe how much easier everything is! I was so pleased that I went and loaded up 50 .45ACP rounds and again the improvement was very noticeable in how easy the press worked.

What I do: Take a 1 gallon Zip-loc bag and spray 3-4 healthy blasts from a spray bottle with my lanolin/alcohol case lube. Dump brass into bag and knead the brass around which distributes the lube around the exterior of the brass. Open up the bag (if you closed it) and wait a minute or 2 and then begin loading. The lube does not get inside the cases so it doesn't interfere with powder and so it is unnecessary to clean the lube off. Just load the ammo and then if you want put it in the tumbler for an hour...

Case lube on everything from now on!! Doesn't add any more trouble and makes things easier -- win/win