Can you seat a bullet too far out?

[thatguyyoudontknow]

I am fairly new to reloading but i do understand how to correctly find the right seating depth. with exteremly minimal work i have my .300 win mag shooting sub moa with the current load and seating depth. My only concern is that the bullet is too far out. Im currently loading Sierra 180gn. softpoint spitzer bullets #2150 again with sub moa results. But the back of the bullet is almost into the neck of the case. Then in stocking up on bullets i bought #2160 which is a boattail bullet where the sides slant in and at the same seating depth woul only contact halfway down the neck and I dont know if it is safe to load the bullets like this or not. also I am almost .2in longer than the coal that any of my information tells me is the max.

[Snyper]

As long as it stays in the case and fits in the magazine, it's not "too long".

OAL isn't nearly as critical in rifles as it is in semi auto pistols

[R.Ph. 380]

I am fairly new to reloading but i do understand how to correctly find the right seating depth. with exteremly minimal work i have my .300 win mag shooting sub moa with the current load and seating depth. My only concern is that the bullet is too far out. Im currently loading Sierra 180gn. softpoint spitzer bullets #2150 again with sub moa results. But the back of the bullet is almost into the neck of the case. Then in stocking up on bullets i bought #2160 which is a boattail bullet where the sides slant in and at the same seating depth woul only contact halfway down the neck and I dont know if it is safe to load the bullets like this or not. also I am almost .2in longer than the coal that any of my information tells me is the max.

If the bullet is secure(good strong crimp with the 300 WM) and it does not impinge on the lands. You have probably got a COAL that your rifle likes. Just make sure it will withstand your recoil.

Bill

[steve4102]

But the back of the bullet is almost into the neck of the case.

Sorry, I'm not sure what this means.

What is your Max OAL for this rifle with this bullet?

How did you find this Max OAL?

What is the actual OAL of your loads?

[nemesiss45]

I dont think safety is a concern if you are not jamming the lands (even then, tons of people do it, it can just produce higher pressured) the only 2 concerns would be accuracy, as a bullet that is too loose could be shifted in the case neck leading to obvious accuracy problems. Also, a loose bullet could be knocked out of the case.

Personally, i have a .308 i load way out like that. I have little enough neck tension i can pull the bullet by hand with a firm grip. I wouldnt load hunting ammo like that... but for ammo that will not be handled much, it should be fine.

[tobnpr]

General rule of thumb is that the diameter of the bullet, is the minimum length to be seated. If it's a boattail, add the length of the boattail as it's taper isn't a bearing area.

As mentioned, as long as you're not jamming (light contact is OK, and sometimes works best) you're OK.

IMO, every reloader should have an OAL gauge/modified cases, bullet comparator, and headspace gauge. Cheap investment, otherwise you're mostly flying blind...

[wogpotter]

General rule of thumb is that the diameter of the bullet, is the minimum length to be seated. If it's a boattail, add the length of the boattail as it's taper isn't a bearing area.

This is what I've always been told as well.

[thatguyyoudontknow]

steve4102 I would love to answer your question but i am currently at college 3 hours away from my toys and i do not know this info off hand. Max oal is 3.340in ( first place i could find online) I do remember that there is a difference of about .15in this only slightly concerns me with the flat back bullets, with the boattail i am more scared to load this length. When i say the back of the bullet is almost in the neck I mean that there is almost no bullet inside the along with the powder. The "longer than SAAMI standards" is similar to where my bullet is at but with a boattailed bullet would not contact the neck for more than half the length of the neck.

[steve4102]

OK, so you are using SAAMI Max and not the Max in your rifle. Got it.

[overthere]

thatguy, there is no requirement as such that the bottom of the bullet is seated so deep it goes beyond the point where the neck meets the shoulder.

I load for 308, 223 and 243 with various bullets and most of them are such that the bottom of the bullet is inside the case neck, i.e. 'seated long' for the purpose of this discussion.

Seating bullets long only have these considerations:

- If seated very much too long, the bullet could fall out of the case if knocked around, or become canted. This would only be the case if you seat the bullet to where almost none of the bearing surface of the bullet enters the case mouth.

- If seated too long it could jam into the lands (the start of the rifling). This is good if this is what you are looking to do, quite common with VLD bullets and the like, but since it increases pressures the load should take this into consideration. In other words, only seat bullets so long that they jam the lands if that is what you want to achieve.

- If seated too long, and you are using a rifle with a magazine, the rounds might not fit into the magazine.


In short, make sure you know what you are doing and seat the bullets to the appropriate length for what you are trying to achieve with your loads. But know that there is no specific requirement that the bottom of the bullet is seated so deep it goes beyond the point where the neck meets the shoulder.

[thatguyyoudontknow]

overthere, first off, is this info that you have come up with yourself ("there is no requirement as such that the bottom of the bullet is seated so deep it goes beyond the point where the neck meets the shoulder.")? Or did you get this information from some other source, or is it somewhat of an accepted fact. Regardless, thank you all for the knowledge that you have bestowed upon me as well as the rest of thefiringline community.

[overthere]

thatguy, I guess the best way to describe it is through inference and it being a generally accepted fact I have been reloading for a couple of years, which is admittedly not a very long time compared to others in the community, and I have been doing quite a lot of research on the topic of seating depths and other aspects of handloading. During this time I have not once come across the notion that the back of the bullet extending beyond the point where the shoulder meets the neck would be of significance in and of itself.

On the contrary it is more common to see questions either of the type 'I really want to seat my bullets long to reduce the jump, is it OK if I just have 0.015 of bullet in the case?', or, 'the throat on my chamber is really short, is it OK to seat this kind of bullet this deep without risk of over pressures?'.

I also personally load almost all of my 223 and 308 rounds long with quite a small amount of bullet inside the case neck. This is because this works well for my rifles and what I want to achieve with the loads.

I am the first to encourage a healthy amount of skepticism for advice provided on the internet. Especially 'just because it has worked for me it means it is true for everyone' kind of advice.

But in this case I am confident in the advice dispensed, i.e. that in and of itself there is no requirement as such that the bottom of the bullet is seated so deep it goes beyond the point where the neck meets the shoulder.

Again, make sure you know what you are doing and seat the bullets to the appropriate length for what you are trying to achieve with your loads. Sometimes this will mean the base of the bullet needs to go beyond the point where the neck meets the shoulder but there is no rule or reason that says that *all* loads need to have the base of the bullet go beyond that point to be safe.

[243winxb]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...27#post4928827 Depends.

[Unclenick]

Seating a bullet's bearing surface one caliber into the neck is an old rule of thumb that tends to control bullet alignment well for general shooting purposes. But be aware there are a number of bullets made today that have a shorter bearing surface than one caliber, so that rule would not work with them.


Thatguyyoudontknow,

If you look at the SAAMI drawing for .300 Win Mag, you see a range of lengths from 3.215" to 3.340". These are intended to guarantee feed and function with all SAAMI compliant magazines and firearms. In your own individual gun, you will likely find the designers have given you a little extra room to work with. Moreover, if you are not feeding from a magazine, but placing the cartridges in the chamber singly, an even wider range of seating options is generally available to you. Use the forum search function at the top right of the page for threads on how to determine the COL at which your bullet is touching the lands.

Below is a pressure curve of pressure changing with seating depth when the load is constant. The fact it changes means published load data is only correct the way it is described. Indeed, particularly in .300 WM, where different brands of brass have case water capacities ranging from about 88 to about 96 grains, it is important to use the same brass, bullet, powder, primer and seating depth, to be sure your load will behave similarly. This is why starting loads are 10% below maximum. It's to let you get away with not matching their gun or all those other things properly, so you can work your load up from there while watching for pressure signs.



Changing seating depth can affect ultimate accuracy, not only because it affects pressure, but it affects bullet self-alignment. Take a look at Berger's recommendation for finding seating depths. If you start with the bullet touching the lands, use a load at least 10% lower than you have been, as that will reduce pressure around 20-25% with most high power rifle cartridges and the powders normally used in them. 20% is about how much pressure goes up when touching the lands with the bullet ogive in most instances.

Terminology. Below is an image illustrating the commonly used terms, in case they are not all familiar.

[44 AMP]

Can you seat a bullet too far out?

Yes.

Next question...

how far out is too far?
That depends on many factors.

Bullet held at least 1/2 caliber by the neck, not touching the lands, and works through the magazine and action, feeding and extracting, you should be ok, no matter what the actual length is by the numbers. Different guns have different tolerances.

SAAMI standards are so that it works in everything that follows SAAMI standards, not what it has to be to work in something else.