October 8, 2009, 09:54 PM | #1 |
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Location: Salt Lake City
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New brass in a new gun
Hi All
It's my first post here. I just received a new 204 Ruger and have 300 new Rem brass cases to load for it after I find a load it likes. The empty Remington cases chamber easily in the gun and a bullet won't enter the case neck. Should the unfired brass be loaded up as is and shot to conform it to the chamber, after which time real accuracy experimentation can begin? Should I size/trim it before loading? I also have a box of Hdy factory loads 40 gr v-max to shoot tomorrow to get a rough idea of the guns accuracy. That would give me 20 fireformed cases for load experimentation, could buy another 20 I suppose so I'd have 40 but I'd still have those 300 rounds new Rem brass. Another question: I bought the lee two die set with neck collet & seater and bought a redding body die to go with it. So I don't own a FL die in 204. Was hoping I wouldn't need one but looking for advice on using that combo. My press is a Co-ax and I have a LNL progressive to use after I knock off some of the rust from not having reloaded for 20 years. Gun is a Savage 10 Precision Carbine custom ordered from Savage with a 22" .204 Ruger bbl. Powders I have to work with are H335, BLC-2, H322, AA2230 at present. 20 cal bullets I have are 32 & 40 gr by nosler, berger and Hdy. Sucker better shoot. It's ugly and feels like I'm holding onto a plastic bathtub toy. But I wanted to reward savage with some $$ for what I feel is some very nice engineering in response to market demand so it's what I have to work with. Thanks! Mike Salt Lake City |
October 8, 2009, 10:17 PM | #2 |
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1st, I'm not very familiar with a "Body Die", so I can't lend any knowledge that way. Most new Norma brass and new Nosler brass does not necessarily have to be prepped, it's sized, trimmed, flash hole is deburred and the cases are weight sorted, but I've found even with the Nosler brass, some of them have slight variation in Overall CASE Length, and a trim back to the Trim-To length will fix that (obviuosly, right?).
What I'm gettin' at, is new Remington brass needs to be Fully Full Length Sized, NOT partially Full Length Sized and NOT just neck sized. New Remington brass will have UNuniform case neck tension, UNuniform case dimensions and UNuniform case length's. After Your cases are prepped and fired, then You can neck size and should get a little better accuracy. |
October 9, 2009, 07:09 AM | #3 |
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Buy a FL die and spare yourself the frustration. Too much neck variation these days.
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October 9, 2009, 07:40 AM | #4 |
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Eliminate all the variables and then you wont have to guess later if it was because you didn't etc...
Size, trim, deburr, flashole prep, everything. Just like it was new brass. Oh wait |
October 9, 2009, 08:02 AM | #5 |
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Mike,
With the body die you won't need a FL die. It serves that function as long as you neck size separately. I would lube and run all those new cases through the body die once, then clean them off and run them through the collet die once for best starting uniformity. The body die probably won't touch most of them, but the ones it does touch will stick if you don't lube them. Remington cases have a reputation for poor neck wall uniformity. You may want to get a case gauge, like the NECO gauge, or a ball-end micrometer for sorting those and set aside the most uniform ones for accuracy experimentation or match shooting. I usually find about 20% of new Winchester cases that have 0.001" total indicated runout (TIR) in the neck or less. I assume Remington will be similar. Or you can spend three times as much for Lapua (don't know if they make this chambering yet) or Norma or the Nosler Custom brass and have virtually no rejects for that purpose.
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October 9, 2009, 09:35 AM | #6 |
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Thanks Unclenick
Is the neck wall thickness measuring function on my RCBS Case Master accurate enough to take on this task? Also, I have 3k Federal 205 SR primers on hand. Are the likely to be OK with the 204? I don't think I'm going to load too warm for this round. |
October 9, 2009, 02:37 PM | #7 |
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Size em and go shooting-hot or not..
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October 9, 2009, 03:48 PM | #8 |
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Federals should be fine.
I don't have the RCBS tool, but if it has a neck wall thickness measuring station it should show the problem. Just measure all around. Your looking for a difference from one side to the next.
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October 9, 2009, 06:08 PM | #9 |
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Had the same problem on some new Winchester bras for this caliber. FL sized out of the new bag and then loaded, no problems since then. Just a collet size now and they are good to go.
Enjoy the 204. It's a blast. |
October 9, 2009, 09:02 PM | #10 |
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Here's how my new Savage Precision Carbine (custom ordered from Savage with a 22" .204 heavy barrel) did on it's maiden voyage today. Load was Federal's V-Shok with the 39grain Speer Blitz. The first 9 shots were scattered as I did the shoot-clean-shoot-clean routine.
I got tired of that -as I always do - and shot groups with the last 11 rounds. I put 6 into the last group as that uncalled flier bugged me terribly. The bore feels rough with a tight patch, but it's shooting well. Matter of fact, it's really gratifying to get this accuracy out of the box with the first factory ammo tried. |
October 10, 2009, 03:42 PM | #11 |
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Factory ammo but................
I went back to the range to help a buddy sort out the MGM 30-06 bbl on his encore which he couldn't get to group. Turned out it had a bad chamber - neck was about .025 over size.
On the way we stopped at the gun shop and I picked up another 20 rounds of the .204 V-Shok. Pics below are posted in the order we shot the 5 shot groups. I've never owned such an accurate gun! Were it not for that cold bbl high flier (uncalled) that 200 yd group would be something to write home about. |
October 11, 2009, 08:55 AM | #12 |
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That rifle is shooting well. The 204 cartridge just seems to want to perform. I've got three in various flavors and they all like to keep the groups small. That loading issue you have can be addressed by a FL size of the case and make sure you chamfer the case mouths. I've had some brass collapse (new stuff) when I forgot that little step.
Greg |
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