pure lead and WW's

[Gitsum]

Im currently casting air cooled WW's for my 38 special and 3 9mm's. I also want to implement some pure lead that I have sitting around. Will I be ok using a 50:50 mix for both of these calibers? Should I water quench to raise the BHN? Im not pushing them hard.

I have looked into using this lead before but was looking at adding solder and it is expensive at $20/lb so just have been using the WW's. I gotta start using this pure lead somehow. I have a bunch of it.

[GP100man]

I`d 50/50 it & add 4oz. of tin to 10# , depending on the hardness of the WW alloy ya may get by with just 50/50 or just a little tin to help fill out .

Listen to the mold & alloy it`ll tell ya what`s needed , ya just gotta listen !!

[Gitsum]

thanks GP. How about quenching?

[TXGunNut]

Try air cooled first, quench or heat treat if your firearms require it. Proper fit is very important, most times more important than hardness for performance. Have you slugged your barrels?

[Gitsum]

The 357 (.38) slugged at .356 and the 2 nines are at .355. (had another 9 shipped yesterday) I am using straight air cooled ww's now and they are all performing well. I was just concerned about lowering the BHN for the 9's as I dont want to start gas cutting and leading. The loads for them are 120TC over 3.5gn Unique and 4.1gn Unique.

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like you're good to go. Hard bullets are overrated and often counter productive. I have one, maybe two rifles that like hard bullets. Everything else is just fine with some aircooled mixture of WW's and usually 2% tin.

[GP100man]

I agree with TGN , but cast a sample batch 25/50 or so & load em up for a test run.

I stopped H2O dropping when I found out the hardening has a limited shelf life. & the alloys have to be at the rite blend with a bit of arsenic to really get full affects of Water Dropping.

& my handgun alloy runs from 10.5-`bout 14.5 , as TGN stated I to have seen so much emphasis put on hardness Fit was forgotten & problems were afoot!!

I`d much rather have a 10.5 bhn boolit (oops it slipped) that was .001 over throat & bore than to have a 18 bhn boolit (dang did it again) that was .0005 under !

As even 12,000 psi can find a .00025 gap & gas cut a boolit ( my bad).

PS they don`t like the spelling of boolit (which we use for our home cast lead projectiles) for bullet , but sometimes ya just gotta let the dogs RUN !!

[GP100man]

Another thought , If ya like WWs ya may find a Muzzle stuffer that`ll trade ya for that plumbers lead ,as they need the softer alloys !!

Being Safe is easy as ABC (Always Be Careful) !!!

[Gitsum]

MUZZLE STUFFER! HA... thats a good one. OK Im going to hit a plumbers supply store today and look at prices for the 95/5. And then decide weather to trade it off or try a mix.

Just so Im straight... Im looking at a 50:50 mix with about 2% 95/5 air cooled correct? And maybe try quenching if neseccary?

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Getsome
For forty years I have shot nothing but stright wheel weights in my revolvers. I load for 38 special J frame, 357 N frame, 29 N frame, 25 N frame and a 625 N. frame and I never had a lead problem. I kept it simple. I don't load rifle calibers so I can't comment.


Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

[hornetguy]

PS they don`t like the spelling of boolit (which we use for our home cast lead projectiles) for bullet , but sometimes ya just gotta let the dogs RUN !!

Sortof like breakin wind... sometimes ya just gotta go with it...

[kraigwy]

The most accurate pistol/revolver bullets I ever shot were swedged bullets, which are pretty much pure lead unless I'm mistaken.

I never understood the need for hard cast bulltets.

I've shot everything from snakes & coyotes to moose and buffalo with SWCs in 38 & 357s. None were hard cast.

They work without undo leading. What leading I get is easily cleaned up with normal cleaning after a shooting session.

I found out as soon as the barrel is cleaned after shooting, the easier to get the lead out.

So I don't see any reason not to mix WWs with lead.

Just my opinion, I know a lot of people like hard lead.

Just a side not, sizing after dropping the hot bullets in water defeats the purpose.

[GP100man]

Da trouble with WW these days (when ya find em) is the inconsistentcy of the alloys !!

I have some old (don`t ask & I won`t lie) that are hard as woodpecker lips & some of lately that barely check 10bhn on my lee tester! then I have some ingots from WW that turn gray like pure does as it ages, so as we talk of WW it`s anybodys guess of alloy content really.

I will say there from a truck shop & some weigh 5oz.

& I seperate stik ons.

[Poodleshooter]

Just a side not, sizing after dropping the hot bullets in water defeats the purpose.

Depends on your purpose.
I water drop more because it's convenient as it instantly cools the bullet, and prevents any slumping out of round if the bullet sits on a hard surface. This is particularly useful at the end of a casting session when bullets are dropping hot and frosty. I found that water dropping reduced the number of bullets that the swaging die had to touch during the sizing/swaging process.

The arsenic hardening mechanism isn't the only reason to water drop.

[Gitsum]

Just got some solder. Home Depot only had Oatey Safe Flo "silver solder" There are no ingredients listed on the package. Is as good as, or the same thing as 95/5? Should I stick with the 2% ratio with it?

[m&p45acp10+1]

I am not sure of the weight but with that type of solder I use about 3 wraps around my four fingers for about 15 pounds of lead.

95/5 Is tin and antimony it is near pure tin you should be good to go. I would say use half as much as if you were using 50/50 solder. A few wraps go a long way.

[Mike / Tx]

Gitsum,

Here are the percentages listed on the MSDS for thiis particular solder,

INGREDIENTS: %wt/wt :
Tin 60 – 100%
Copper 1 – 5%
Bismuth 1 – 5%
Silver 1 – 5%

You can find it listed for almost any brand by looking on their company site and finding the MSDS sheet. They might not be down to the molecular level but they are plenty close enough to get where you looking to be.

Also you need to go to one of or both of these links and download the Excel spreadsheet calculator as well. As with the MSDS sheet, it might not be exact, but it is close enough to get you where your looking to be with your allow. Surely better than a shot in the dark.

Lead Alloy Calculators 011512.zip

The Cast Bullet Association Downloads

The first one is the one I have been using, but the second one if also a very well put together one as well. Just depends on how much you want out of them. The best thing I have found is a way to get a repeatable very close BHN allow from using quite a bit of the different purchased alloys I have gotten over the past 6-8 months. There isn't much guess work involved, simply put in the weights, and play with the numbers until the BHN I am looking for comes up. Then weigh it out and smelt it into ingots. Combined with the excellent info posted by Glen Fryxell on the LASC site, "From Ingot to Target" or in the Cast Bullet Notes section, "Cast Bullet Alloy / Alloy Maintenance", I doubt there isn't much you cannot do with your raw alloy, and the right additions.

I usually take a Lee 2 cacity mold and pour up several test boolits when I make up a batch. I throw them in a zip lock with the date, temp poured, and approximate final BHN listed on it. Then I will check them after an hour, a week and again in two weeks. I am using the Cabintree Tester and have found that with doing things this way I have been able to keep my hardness as measured with it to within around .005 or so of the dial reading. This is plenty close for the boolits I am using in my revolvers.

Hope this helps.

[Gitsum]

Thanks for the info Mike. I was pretty sure that when the Home Depot guy told me it was 95% silver anf 5% tin he didnt know what he was talking about. Molded up about 1300 120gn TC TL tonight and they came out a beautiful bright and shiny silver.