Browning I.D. (Pics)

Fritzers · December 11, 2002, 01:41 AM

Your worse nightmare...a newbie gun enthusist and a newbie computer poster. Anyway, I just picked up 3 Browning shotguns. I have done hours of research, but am not even sure what I have. Please inform me if what I think I have, I have, or any other info that may be of interest. 20 guage Magnum 20 auto. 27 inch flutted barrell, made in Belgium. Year?

Fritzers · December 11, 2002, 01:46 AM

Next...Over-under 12 guage, 30 inch flutted barrell, made in Belgium in ?

Fritzers · December 11, 2002, 01:49 AM

And...Citori over-under 20 guage, 26 inch flutted barrell, made in Japan? Year?

Dave McC · December 11, 2002, 05:44 AM

You've got three very good shotguns, tho I'm not sure what a flutted bbl is.

Try posting this down on Harley's Forum, the guys can tell you down to the day of the week when these were made.

Belgian Brownings have a certain cachet that the Japanese Browning do not. The Citori is Japanese.

The Belgian O/U is a Superposed, the auto is an A-5. Both are JMB designs and very long lasting.

As for value, can't help you, not up on present prices in your area. Will guess they're worth $1K or more each.

HTH....

weerwolf · December 11, 2002, 05:57 AM

A fluted barrel is when there are grooves cut in the outside of the barrel to help cool the barrel down. Its better then using a H-bar (heavy barrel) because you don't have the increased weight.

johnbt · December 11, 2002, 08:45 AM

weerwolf - I've never seen a fluted shotgun barrel. I don't think I've ever seen a shotgun with barrel walls thick enough to flute if somebody even wanted to do it.

John

Kingcreek · December 11, 2002, 12:00 PM

Are we confusing fluted barrel with vent rib?

all nice shotguns. that mag 20 made its debut in 1957 IIRC. yours appears to have had the stock chopped and a recoil pad added.

C.R.Sam · December 11, 2002, 03:33 PM

Agree with Kingcreek...
Vent rib...not fluted.

Sam

Fritzers · December 11, 2002, 05:15 PM

Sorry, my bad...yes they have vent ribs, not fluted.

The Belgian O/U is a Superposed, the auto is an A-5. Both are JMB designs and very long lasting.

Thank you Dave, saw Superposed and A-5 listed...do you know what superposed means? And what does JMB designs mean?

that mag 20 made its debut in 1957 IIRC. yours appears to have had the stock chopped and a recoil pad added.

And thank you Kingcreek, what does 1957 IIRC stand for? The gun looks brand new and unmodified...seems like chopping the stock would reduce the value? Not going to sell them but would like to perhaps adjust my insurance.

Dave McC · December 11, 2002, 05:38 PM

Superposed means one on top of the other.

JMB stands for John Moses Browning, who was to firearms what Michaelangelo was to chapel ceilings. He died in 1927, and at least 10 of his designs are still in production, from the 50 caliber Browning heavy Machine gun(AKA Ma Deuce) to a little takedown 22 rifle.

IIRC=If I Recall Correctly.

Don't just get them evaluated, take them out and shoot them. That's what they're for!

A lot of shotgunners would covet that battery...

Noban · December 11, 2002, 05:39 PM

If I may, "JMB" means John Moses Browning. Remington also made a similar shotgun under license to Browning called the Model 11. I have one in 20 gauge and it's a real sweet shooter.

Fritzers · December 11, 2002, 06:53 PM

Thanks for the info all...should of stated that I want to know what they are worth for insurance purposes. Do not know what it is but I can't bring myself to sell any of my guns or dogs...everything else is for sale! (Might keep the wife and kids also).

Kingcreek · December 12, 2002, 08:18 AM

When I get a chance I'll dig out some Browning promo stuff and a magazine article from 1957 on the mag 20 and get some scans. I've got one like new and its listed in my personal inventory with a value of $1100. (sub ~$200 if a chopped stock) your citori is worth about same and the superposed is worth a few bills more. somebody else could give you some firmer prices.
a nice older 20g citori is the one Browning on the top of my wish list.
nice trio

bismark · December 12, 2002, 01:08 PM

Actually, those prices are on the high side. I would put your auto 5 at arroung $450 with that non round knob (incorrect)buttstock. The Citori would go for like $800 used, the Superposed is prob arround $1450, unless it has any of a number of rare or desireable features.

Alerion · December 12, 2002, 03:49 PM

Fritzers,

You might also want to go to Browning's Date Your Gun webpage to see when it was manufactured. (I tried dating one of my guns once. It was close but I think I still prefer women.)

I'm not sure that the recoil pad isn't original. Browning may have had some different options on the gun(s). My dad had an A-5, bought new and never modified, and I think it had the identical recoil pad. However I haven't seen that gun in about 25 years so I may be wrong. I know one of his semi-autos had it because the recoil pad was the reason I chose that particular gun as my first 12ga to fire. (The first time I ever shot a shotgun, a .410 at about age 8, the guy that owned it told me to "hold it away from your shoulder so you don't hurt yourself!"

I was about 12 before I even considered firing a shotgun again.)

Tom

Alerion · December 12, 2002, 04:00 PM

I was just looking at the Date Your Gun page for the Auto-5 around the mid-50's. About the time that my father's gun would have been built. I wonder if the "light weight" gun may have had a recoil pad on it? For no other reason than replacing a couple of inches of wood with a couple inches of rubber, semi-cutout at that, would be a quick way of taking a few ounces out and helping tame the recoil of a lighter gun as well. Just an idea.

Tom

Dave McC · December 13, 2002, 05:32 AM

The pad looks like some I've seen on Brownings. Whether original or aftermarket,it's a good pad and well done from the look of things.

Fritzers · December 14, 2002, 03:41 AM

Since the pad looked like it came with it I had not looked for any writing...upon further review the pad has "WHITE LINE" and something else embosed in it. Does that mean it aint stock?

Thanks again for all your efforts.

Dave McC · December 14, 2002, 12:39 PM

White line was a trademark of the Pachmyers, if memory serves. I believe some Browning had this as a factory item,including the A-5 Magnum waterfowlers.

HTH...

bismark · December 15, 2002, 07:17 PM

Come on people! Who cares about the recoil pad, the whole buttstock is wrong! Brownings of that vintage had round knobs. This will cut the guns value in half.

December 11, 2002, 05:57 AM	#5
weerwolf Member Join Date: December 8, 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 28	A fluted barrel is when there are grooves cut in the outside of the barrel to help cool the barrel down. Its better then using a H-bar (heavy barrel) because you don't have the increased weight. __________________ veni , vedi , velcro I came , I saw and I stuck around

December 12, 2002, 03:49 PM	#15
Alerion Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2002 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 287	Fritzers, You might also want to go to Browning's Date Your Gun webpage to see when it was manufactured. (I tried dating one of my guns once. It was close but I think I still prefer women.) I'm not sure that the recoil pad isn't original. Browning may have had some different options on the gun(s). My dad had an A-5, bought new and never modified, and I think it had the identical recoil pad. However I haven't seen that gun in about 25 years so I may be wrong. I know one of his semi-autos had it because the recoil pad was the reason I chose that particular gun as my first 12ga to fire. (The first time I ever shot a shotgun, a .410 at about age 8, the guy that owned it told me to "hold it away from your shoulder so you don't hurt yourself!" I was about 12 before I even considered firing a shotgun again.) Tom __________________ Well, sometimes we’d travel right down the green river To the abandoned old prison down by Adrie hill. Where the air smelled like snakes and we’d shoot with our pistols But empty pop bottles was all we would kill. -John Prine, Paradise

December 12, 2002, 04:00 PM	#16
Alerion Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2002 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 287	I was just looking at the Date Your Gun page for the Auto-5 around the mid-50's. About the time that my father's gun would have been built. I wonder if the "light weight" gun may have had a recoil pad on it? For no other reason than replacing a couple of inches of wood with a couple inches of rubber, semi-cutout at that, would be a quick way of taking a few ounces out and helping tame the recoil of a lighter gun as well. Just an idea. Tom __________________ Well, sometimes we’d travel right down the green river To the abandoned old prison down by Adrie hill. Where the air smelled like snakes and we’d shoot with our pistols But empty pop bottles was all we would kill. -John Prine, Paradise

December 11, 2002, 05:44 AM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	You've got three very good shotguns, tho I'm not sure what a flutted bbl is. Try posting this down on Harley's Forum, the guys can tell you down to the day of the week when these were made. Belgian Brownings have a certain cachet that the Japanese Browning do not. The Citori is Japanese. The Belgian O/U is a Superposed, the auto is an A-5. Both are JMB designs and very long lasting. As for value, can't help you, not up on present prices in your area. Will guess they're worth $1K or more each. HTH....

December 11, 2002, 08:45 AM	#6
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	weerwolf - I've never seen a fluted shotgun barrel. I don't think I've ever seen a shotgun with barrel walls thick enough to flute if somebody even wanted to do it. John

December 11, 2002, 12:00 PM	#7
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	Are we confusing fluted barrel with vent rib? all nice shotguns. that mag 20 made its debut in 1957 IIRC. yours appears to have had the stock chopped and a recoil pad added.

December 11, 2002, 03:33 PM	#8
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Agree with Kingcreek... Vent rib...not fluted. Sam

December 11, 2002, 05:15 PM	#9
Fritzers Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Location: Pismo Beach, California (Central Coast) Posts: 62	Sorry, my bad...yes they have vent ribs, not fluted. The Belgian O/U is a Superposed, the auto is an A-5. Both are JMB designs and very long lasting. Thank you Dave, saw Superposed and A-5 listed...do you know what superposed means? And what does JMB designs mean? that mag 20 made its debut in 1957 IIRC. yours appears to have had the stock chopped and a recoil pad added. And thank you Kingcreek, what does 1957 IIRC stand for? The gun looks brand new and unmodified...seems like chopping the stock would reduce the value? Not going to sell them but would like to perhaps adjust my insurance.

December 11, 2002, 05:38 PM	#10
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Superposed means one on top of the other. JMB stands for John Moses Browning, who was to firearms what Michaelangelo was to chapel ceilings. He died in 1927, and at least 10 of his designs are still in production, from the 50 caliber Browning heavy Machine gun(AKA Ma Deuce) to a little takedown 22 rifle. IIRC=If I Recall Correctly. Don't just get them evaluated, take them out and shoot them. That's what they're for! A lot of shotgunners would covet that battery...

December 11, 2002, 05:39 PM	#11
Noban Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Posts: 662	If I may, "JMB" means John Moses Browning. Remington also made a similar shotgun under license to Browning called the Model 11. I have one in 20 gauge and it's a real sweet shooter.

December 11, 2002, 06:53 PM	#12
Fritzers Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Location: Pismo Beach, California (Central Coast) Posts: 62	Thanks for the info all...should of stated that I want to know what they are worth for insurance purposes. Do not know what it is but I can't bring myself to sell any of my guns or dogs...everything else is for sale! (Might keep the wife and kids also).

December 12, 2002, 08:18 AM	#13
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	When I get a chance I'll dig out some Browning promo stuff and a magazine article from 1957 on the mag 20 and get some scans. I've got one like new and its listed in my personal inventory with a value of $1100. (sub ~$200 if a chopped stock) your citori is worth about same and the superposed is worth a few bills more. somebody else could give you some firmer prices. a nice older 20g citori is the one Browning on the top of my wish list. nice trio

December 12, 2002, 01:08 PM	#14
bismark Member Join Date: October 22, 2001 Posts: 38	Actually, those prices are on the high side. I would put your auto 5 at arroung $450 with that non round knob (incorrect)buttstock. The Citori would go for like $800 used, the Superposed is prob arround $1450, unless it has any of a number of rare or desireable features.

December 13, 2002, 05:32 AM	#17
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The pad looks like some I've seen on Brownings. Whether original or aftermarket,it's a good pad and well done from the look of things.

December 14, 2002, 03:41 AM	#18
Fritzers Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Location: Pismo Beach, California (Central Coast) Posts: 62	Since the pad looked like it came with it I had not looked for any writing...upon further review the pad has "WHITE LINE" and something else embosed in it. Does that mean it aint stock? Thanks again for all your efforts.

December 14, 2002, 12:39 PM	#19
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	White line was a trademark of the Pachmyers, if memory serves. I believe some Browning had this as a factory item,including the A-5 Magnum waterfowlers. HTH...

December 15, 2002, 07:17 PM	#20
bismark Member Join Date: October 22, 2001 Posts: 38	Come on people! Who cares about the recoil pad, the whole buttstock is wrong! Brownings of that vintage had round knobs. This will cut the guns value in half.