Side by Side for Defense - Recommendations? - Page 2

OkieCruffler · December 17, 2009, 06:37 PM

For many years I had a fake 311R sitting at bedside, loaded, safety on and 2 extra shells sitting near by. The chambers on that thing are so polished that it just takes a little shake to throw out empties (wish all my 311's were like that) and with a little practice and technique I can reload that thing faster than most would think.
But now with the youngin' running about and more curious than most I've gone to a cruiser ready 870. Still wouldn't feel abit undergunned with that 311.

Balog · December 18, 2009, 11:48 AM

I find it interesting how many responses don't seek to answer the OP's question, but castigate him for his choice. I'd better not post a "What revolver for concealed carry" thread lest I be inundated with replies of how useless revolvers are compared to wundernines (1911's, XD's etc). Sheesh...

Doubles have strengths and weaknesses like anything else. Shorter, lighter (generally), many find they point easier, fastest 2nd shot possible, redundant firing mechanism w/ double triggers, fewer moving parts, no chance of short stroking under stress like a pump, no ammo finicky-ness like some autos etc. The huge and obvious downside is ammo capacity. How likely one is to need 5-6 rounds of 12ga in a home defense scenario is debatable. Maybe the OP will regret not having an extended mag Saiga. Maybe all the revolver guys will regret not having an XD with 14 rounds of .45 on tap, too. But that hardly invalidates their choice.

My thanks to the people offering useful input. I recently sold my pump as I just didn't care for it, and when I get another smoothbore for social work it will most likely be a SxS. I'll learn it intimately, and train to minimize it's weaknesses. And in the (nigh inevitable, it seems) event that a half dozen home invaders hopped up on PCP break in, I suppose I'll just have to take my chances.

L-2 · December 18, 2009, 12:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw
Here'a a link to a Clint Smith Thunder Ranch excerpt from his training video on shotguns. It includes SxS guns.

While I don't have a SxS shotgun (yet), I've been looking at the Stoegers for a couple of years now. I just haven't yet found one to handle in-person to handle. They appear to have a good company background and support network once I get to owning one.

Personally, my present shotguns are all of the HD/tactical/combat type: Mossberg 590A1, Remington 870P, & 11-87P. I generally agree with keeping the mag-tubes loaded and having more repeatable round capability. But look at that video, above. "Run the gun you got" and the SxS can certainly be loaded quickly. Five rounds sitting in a SxS's sidesaddle/butt-cuff can equate to 5 rounds sitting in the tube of a Mossberg 500.

Laz · December 18, 2009, 09:26 PM

Not in any way being a shotgun expert, but liking SxSs (probably for the nostalgia and seeming simplicity), there seem to be a couple of problems with them that I have a hard time ignoring aside from, but not unrelated to, capacity issues. Even if I get "pretty good" at reloading quickly and under stress, it still requires many more intricate movements requiring dexterity, i.e. fumble-prone movements, than operating the slide of a pump shotgun. The second problem (for me) is the state of readiness. The SxS must either be kept empty with shells nearby, or loaded but broken open, or loaded with (internal) hammers uncocked (possible on some guns but meaning the gun must be broken open to cock the mechanism before use) or loaded with safety on (not safe in my estimation). Plus, unless modified, each time the gun is fired and reloaded the operator must train to take the safety off again (another step under stress). Am I the only person here who has ever lost a bird because in the excitement of the flush I neglected to take off the safety? (I bet I'm not. I know it's training but it's still something that can happen.) It just seems that a pump gun with reasonable capacity, loaded magazine, hammer down on empty chamber, safety off is easier to run with less chances for screwing up. I like SxSs but my brain tells me an 870 does a better job.

Still, my SxS is a Remington Spartan 220 (Baikal), double trigger, cylinder bore, 12 gauge. I like this gun because I can release the (rebounding) hammers and still keep the chambers loaded but have to crack the action to cock it for use. Still faster than loading the gun.

Plus, the SxS is secondary. I have an 870P as my main defense tool.

Jkwas · December 21, 2009, 10:32 AM

I went hunting Saturday with the Stevens 311 and was at no disadavantage what so ever. In fact, when we found out there were hogs nearby while shooting dove, I loaded up one barrel with buck, and one barrel with 8. The two triggers gave me the option and changing out loads with a butt cuff was quick and easy. I was considering a pump gun, but I think I'll stick with the SXS for now.

December 17, 2009, 06:37 PM	#26
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	For many years I had a fake 311R sitting at bedside, loaded, safety on and 2 extra shells sitting near by. The chambers on that thing are so polished that it just takes a little shake to throw out empties (wish all my 311's were like that) and with a little practice and technique I can reload that thing faster than most would think. But now with the youngin' running about and more curious than most I've gone to a cruiser ready 870. Still wouldn't feel abit undergunned with that 311. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

December 18, 2009, 12:09 PM	#28
L-2 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 523	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw Here'a a link to a Clint Smith Thunder Ranch excerpt from his training video on shotguns. It includes SxS guns. While I don't have a SxS shotgun (yet), I've been looking at the Stoegers for a couple of years now. I just haven't yet found one to handle in-person to handle. They appear to have a good company background and support network once I get to owning one. Personally, my present shotguns are all of the HD/tactical/combat type: Mossberg 590A1, Remington 870P, & 11-87P. I generally agree with keeping the mag-tubes loaded and having more repeatable round capability. But look at that video, above. "Run the gun you got" and the SxS can certainly be loaded quickly. Five rounds sitting in a SxS's sidesaddle/butt-cuff can equate to 5 rounds sitting in the tube of a Mossberg 500. __________________ (former) Glock Armorer 1911 Armorer LEO (retired)

December 18, 2009, 09:26 PM	#29
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	Not in any way being a shotgun expert, but liking SxSs (probably for the nostalgia and seeming simplicity), there seem to be a couple of problems with them that I have a hard time ignoring aside from, but not unrelated to, capacity issues. Even if I get "pretty good" at reloading quickly and under stress, it still requires many more intricate movements requiring dexterity, i.e. fumble-prone movements, than operating the slide of a pump shotgun. The second problem (for me) is the state of readiness. The SxS must either be kept empty with shells nearby, or loaded but broken open, or loaded with (internal) hammers uncocked (possible on some guns but meaning the gun must be broken open to cock the mechanism before use) or loaded with safety on (not safe in my estimation). Plus, unless modified, each time the gun is fired and reloaded the operator must train to take the safety off again (another step under stress). Am I the only person here who has ever lost a bird because in the excitement of the flush I neglected to take off the safety? (I bet I'm not. I know it's training but it's still something that can happen.) It just seems that a pump gun with reasonable capacity, loaded magazine, hammer down on empty chamber, safety off is easier to run with less chances for screwing up. I like SxSs but my brain tells me an 870 does a better job. Still, my SxS is a Remington Spartan 220 (Baikal), double trigger, cylinder bore, 12 gauge. I like this gun because I can release the (rebounding) hammers and still keep the chambers loaded but have to crack the action to cock it for use. Still faster than loading the gun. Plus, the SxS is secondary. I have an 870P as my main defense tool. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.

December 21, 2009, 10:32 AM	#30
Jkwas Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Mouth of the Rat, Florida Posts: 1,778	I went hunting Saturday with the Stevens 311 and was at no disadavantage what so ever. In fact, when we found out there were hogs nearby while shooting dove, I loaded up one barrel with buck, and one barrel with 8. The two triggers gave me the option and changing out loads with a butt cuff was quick and easy. I was considering a pump gun, but I think I'll stick with the SXS for now. __________________ I grew up in New Jersey, but later moved to Florida and made a complete recovery. Keltec: The BIC lighter of handguns http://jkwasblog.blogspot.com/

December 18, 2009, 11:48 AM	#27
Balog Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 259	I find it interesting how many responses don't seek to answer the OP's question, but castigate him for his choice. I'd better not post a "What revolver for concealed carry" thread lest I be inundated with replies of how useless revolvers are compared to wundernines (1911's, XD's etc). Sheesh... Doubles have strengths and weaknesses like anything else. Shorter, lighter (generally), many find they point easier, fastest 2nd shot possible, redundant firing mechanism w/ double triggers, fewer moving parts, no chance of short stroking under stress like a pump, no ammo finicky-ness like some autos etc. The huge and obvious downside is ammo capacity. How likely one is to need 5-6 rounds of 12ga in a home defense scenario is debatable. Maybe the OP will regret not having an extended mag Saiga. Maybe all the revolver guys will regret not having an XD with 14 rounds of .45 on tap, too. But that hardly invalidates their choice. My thanks to the people offering useful input. I recently sold my pump as I just didn't care for it, and when I get another smoothbore for social work it will most likely be a SxS. I'll learn it intimately, and train to minimize it's weaknesses. And in the (nigh inevitable, it seems) event that a half dozen home invaders hopped up on PCP break in, I suppose I'll just have to take my chances.