Specialized Drill Bit: Where to Purchase?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Something new to me that requires assistance from those in the know.
Holidays are over. Now have a little spare time for a project I want to undertake. I have a Remington 700 wood stocked Mountain Rifle in 270 Win that I want to epoxy bed and mount a couple support pillars. I do have access to both a drill press and hand drills. What I need is a good Forstner bit that also has a pilot before its cutter for the purpose. {for drilling out those 2/ pillar holes accurately} Any suggestions where to purchase? or Tips in doing correctly would be appreciated?

[PetahW]

.

Almost any good hardware store or a big box store's tool dept that sells drillbits should also have Forstner bits, too.

When you set the stock up un your drill press, be sure to plumb the bit with the existing hole in the stock. (aka, shim the stock on the table until you have joy)


.

[2ndsojourn]

Check Harbor Freight. Not the best quality by far, but if you're only getting it for this job it'll work for you.

[Clark]

A Forster bit is nothing to use on an existing hole. It needs to follow it's pilot.

You could fill in the existing holes, but I would not do that.



I make my own pillars and then pre compress them.
Not for the reason that re bar is pre stressed in concrete.
I do it for alignment. I want the flat ends to fit perfectly on the flat parts of the receiver.

I make the pillar holes extra big and not exact.
I level the barreled action.



Then when I put the stock on the barreled action with pre compressed and epoxy gooped pillars, I level the stock. That way I get the alignment I want.


This the first group at 100 yards from the above .223 getting pillar bedded.

Pillar bedding and/or glass bedding has almost nothing to do with 223 accuracy, but neither do most accuracy rituals.

I could take the stock off and get that kind of group. The important stuff is:
1) Shoot when there is no wind
2) High power scope
3) Practice dry firing until the cross hairs stay on the bullseye
4) Good bullets
5) Concentric ammo [no expander ball and jam the bullet into the lands]
6) Clean bore [The fight against Copper fouling never ends]

However, that being said, bad glass bedding CAN wreck accuracy, by creating a bind on the barreled action that causes the bend to change as the barrel heats up with shooting. Use a dollar bill to check that the barrel floats all the way back to receiver. Smack the barrel with the hand and you should hear a sustained bongg. When the screws are tightened, it should not be bending the receiver. The support against the screws should be close if not concentric with the screws.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Cleveland Twist Drill used to do customs, but what they would charge to grind one, now, I couldn't say. You are asking for a bit similar to that in a Kreg Jig, a stepped OD bit, just larger in OD.

Another thought, if you could match the pilot diameter, is to use a piloted counterbore, which most machine shop suppliers would have. I'm not sure how they would work with wood though.

If you have a lathe, and a tool post grinder, then you could grind your own.



Update, CTD has a "Style 879 Short Series Straight Shank Counterbore & Spot Facer" with interchangeable pilot. I think this would work for you, and they have a dowloadable catalog on their website here:

http://www.gfii.com/content/download.asp

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I'm not sure I can enlarge the actions hold down screw holes free handed. So to accept their pillars and drill straight & true at the same time. I've read gunsmiths use a special drill that has a pilot before its blade that helps center its bit in its hole as its being used. All I seem to find at midway is the bedding kits but not the pillar drill bit itself. I could try drilling with my every-day drill bits. But with aged walnut as the stocks wood is. I'm sure I'm going to bust out the top or the bottom side of the screw hole as I drill thru. Thus the need for that special drill bit that has a cutter similar to a Forster bit then again like the cutters on a cement planner blade. I tried Googling. But I got so many web sites that didn't relate to my question. Page after page I perused through. None offered the info I needed.

[PetahW]

.

Drill a hole large enough to accept the pillar(s) in a piece of scrap wood; center that hole over the smaller action screw hole in the stock, to use as a guide.
You should probably clamp the drilled scrap/guide to the stock.


.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

PetahW: Never crossed my mind in trying to do it that way. I got something even better. 1/4" scrap aluminum flat plate. I'll drill that on my press to a pillars OS dia. clamp then free-hand the stock. Only problem I for-see. I'll have to drill super slow upon the holes exiting. As to not chip the holes edge.
Thanks for the Tip Sir. Might just give that a try if no one comes up with a Gunsmith equipment business to buy a bit from.

[Coach Z]

I would try McMastercarr.com. If they don't have the bit you're looking for then it may not exist!

[milq]

I like the idea of using a counterbore if you can find the correct size. Should work fine as long as you keep the RPM down.

[tangolima]

scorehi.com sells piloted counter bore bits for glass bedding, $60. Or you can rent their drill jig.

But I was too cheap to spend the money. 2 methods that have worked for me.

1. Plug the holes with wood dowels, and drill away. You don't need to be right on precise. The holes just need to be big enough to accommodate the pillars.

2. Use stepped drill bit to enlarge the holes and finish drilling with Forstner bit.

-TL

[PetahW]

.

The exit end of the drilled hole (in wood) is best tightly backed-up with (any) wood to avoid tear/chip out.
(woodworking 101 )

A sloppy second-best would be to apply a layer of masking tape tightly to the wood @ the exit point.


.

[tangolima]

Tear out shouldn't be problem if you drill from trigger guard into the action. Just go slow.

-TL

[tobnpr]

You need the piloted counterbore. I use them all the time for pillar installs, even on new stocks I just made. Always start with the standard action screw prep, then enlarge.

Can't be done accurately without a piloted counterbore...however, if neatness doesn't count (and it usually does, unless bottom metal is going to cover everything completely), you can enlarge existing holes without one, and the epoxy will obviously fill any gaps.

You buy the counterbore in whatever dia you need (typically, 9/16" for 1/2" OD pillars), then the pilot to fit the diameter of the existing action screw hole.

Easy-peasy.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...-prod8011.aspx

You can buy cheaper ones (don't have the time to look it up now) from places like Enco...

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

"scorehi.com sells piloted counter bore bits"
Your the man tangolima as is tobnpr also with his suggestion of Brownell's. Now with this sites info {y'all commented} and all those Pix uploaded to this site. I got a pretty good idea what I'm in for. I'm still on track with my project. Only one question I have that's still bugging me and could use an answer. If I pillar bed my stock. Can I get by doing that only. Or is it absolutely necessary to epoxy bed its Action also in order to see (any) improvement in accuracy?

Here's my take: Pillars are better than doing nothing. If I gain even a small amount of accuracy I'll be pleased.

After thought:
I went back and re-read Clark's comment. I see my question has indeed been answered.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

The piloted counterbore will work. I have a few custom stepped-bits like I mentioned, but I wasn't the one who ordered them, so I have no idea where they came from. As long as the teeth on the end of the counterbore are at the right angle, they will bore wood without splintering it up from the bottom (aircraft type, being for aluminum, they have a sharper angle).

The difference, though, to these and a Forstner bit, is the Forstner scores the work so you don't get edge splinter. The Brownell's counterbore looks to be the same as the Cleveland 879, except for the one pilot they have for a Ruger. However, you'll need to watch that it doesn't splinter up around the edge. Use a slow speed when using.

[tobnpr]

Clark's response is spot on.
However, note that he said a "bad" receiver bedding job can harm accuracy...

Also note that he uses surgical tubing to bed the pillars to the receiver. Wrapping surgical tubing (or electrical tape-"stretchy") instead of the "old" way of using modified action screws- this avoids the point loads he refers to that can induce stress into the receiver, same as when bedding the action itself.

Can you do one, and not the other? Sure- but IMHO, if I were to do only s one of the two, it would be bedding the receiver.

Keep in mind that pillar bedding, and receiver bedding, are two completely different animals in terms of their desired affects.

Pillars eliminate the possibility of stock compression, and uneven/changing action screw torque values. This is most important with wood stocks, as they're most subject to compression, and changes with temperature and humidity. Modern composites minimize, or eliminate, this concern to a great extent.

OTOH, receiver bedding prevents the action from moving in the stock due to recoil. It assures a zero-clearance fit, 100% contact of the recoil lug to the stock. A receiver, pillar-bedded into a stock that's got a sloppy fit, and allows movement, will be no more accurate than if it were not pillar bedded.

JMO...

[lawdog2]

I get my pilot bit(step bit) and other machining tools fom MSC Direct. They have just about everything you will need to do the drilling.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

That tool house MSC surprised me lawdog2. Not far from my residence is that business. Have to keep that in mind along with McMastercarr & CTD also.

Well hears today's scoop.
Took a close look as Score High's web site over the weekend. I can buy the drill bit I need to do the pillar-job there for $63.00 including it shipping.

Score High also rents a pillar drilling jig kit for $48.00 for a 5 day rental plus its postage of $9.00 which covers the kits shipping both ways.
But Score High requires a deposit of $319.95 on the tool itself. You get $262.95 back once to tool has been returned examined and considered by them to be in good shape. All monies returned but for $57.00.{The cost of the renal tool and its shipping.}

I could buy the jig itself but that's out of the question as I only have three rifles I can (pillarize.) 2-Rem 700 LA's & one Rem SA.
One nice feature about their Pillar Drilling kit rental. {it comes with both Rem L & S action jigs I do believe.} So I might get a 3-fer out of its using.

Only one small item is holding me up. Their web site offers no testimony from those who have bought their products or have used their services. So my next question is: Has anyone? Or do you know of anyone who has? (Please comment if either case applies.)

Being their place of business is 1500 miles away. If I were to incur a problem its not like I can just drive over to their store to help resolve such matters.

So fellows what do you think?

[tangolima]

I used their adjustable pillars and compound for my rem 700. It became the most accurate rifle I have ever fired. No reservation at all to recommend their products.

They also have a tutorial on bedding. Read through them and see how much they know what they are doing.

-TL