August 4, 2013, 07:29 AM | #51 |
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it doesnt take to long to google up the synopsis, but itll cost 35 dollars to get the actual paper.
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August 4, 2013, 10:31 AM | #52 | |
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Quote:
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August 4, 2013, 09:32 PM | #53 |
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Gee, thirty-five bucks to get the answer (maybe) to an anonymous assertion made on the 'net? What a deal!
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August 5, 2013, 12:06 AM | #54 |
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Expansion vs Penetration
Threads like this recall an interesting discussion about realistic vs unrealistic expectations of handgun rounds. Caliber wars frequently feature tales of various rounds "failing", which is commonly presented as a high count stop. For example, "I know an FBI HRT agent who shot a hijacker 7 times with .45 JHP before he went down." Realistic expectation is that it very well may require so many rounds to put down a determined criminal. This is a software fail, not a hardware fail.
I mention this now, because I could see this thread turning a sharp corner into caliber war country. |
August 6, 2013, 07:44 AM | #55 |
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http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=sanow
thats just one. 44 army is basically a standard 38 special when it comes to performance. not fancy, but it gets the job. |
August 6, 2013, 11:39 AM | #56 | |
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That sure isn't good enough for me.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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August 8, 2013, 09:46 PM | #57 | |
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I know I'm weighing in a bit late but I noticed something in the Study by Frank Ellifritz is that:
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What my inference is here is that military and police are going to be the ones typically carrying the rounds that had a lower one shot stop percentage but they are also usually walking INTO situations where the BG is prepared mentally to keep going. So, the data is skewed in that sense. I think we all agree that the psychological stopping power in an everyday situation of self defense is the largest factor but these numbers won't reflect that because of the situational background in which they are being used. I hope that was clear, not sure how to express it better at the moment.
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August 9, 2013, 04:58 PM | #58 |
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I think we need more new people to start these threads again and again, so they can be debated again and again.....
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August 9, 2013, 09:48 PM | #59 |
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I don't think it's a realistic expectation that these threads will go away. There are obviously a number of topics that become re-runs to us that are still of enough interest that A) new people keep making them, and B) the rest of us keep participating in the threads.
Besides, there are only so many possible topics. If we stop participating in-, or allowing these types of discussions, the board will die.
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August 10, 2013, 10:37 AM | #60 | ||||||
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Some interesting points in the op, which seem to make sense at first glance, but a bit of careful thought points out where some of the are...less than fully factually inclusive.
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Studies are great things, and sometimes actually deliver useful information. But drawing correct conclusions, even from fully accurate data is tricky. One can determine general trends, but general trends are just that, general. You can find cases where everything failed. You can find cases where everything worked. What you cannot find is any way of knowing in advance if the shooting you get involved in will follow the general rule, or be an exception. Quote:
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And doesn't everything rely on the shooter's ability, as a baseline? Quote:
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Stopping power discussions are certainly more informative than ones about angels dancing on the heads of pins, but putting all one's faith in any theory being the absolute truth every single time doesn't seem to square with observed real world results. There are no magic bullets.....
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