30 Army paper bullets

ronl · April 28, 2010, 09:42 PM

I ran across a box of 30 Army loaded with paper bullets still in the original Winchester box and was wondering how much the things were worth.

mapsjanhere · April 29, 2010, 09:04 PM

I was so hoping someone would answer this, I've never heard of a 30-40 Krag still having used paper to seal the bullet.

James K · April 29, 2010, 10:17 PM

I am pretty sure Ronl means paper bullets, not paper patched bullets.

The Cartridge, Blank, Caliber .30, Model of 1896, used a formed paper bullet so it would feed through the rifle action, but would not be a danger when used in exercises.

After the adoption of the Model 1903 rifle, paper bullet blanks were made for the .30-'03 (Model of 1903) and .30-'06 rifles (Model of 1906). The latter was produced by Frankford Arsenal until 1908, when the familiar cardboard wad blank was adopted.

During and after WWI, the Navy let contracts to both Remington and Winchester for .30 Army paper bullet blanks for training, the largest contract being for 1.5 million cartridges, in April 1917. Those cases had military style headstamps with the contractor and the date.

In addition, Winchester made .30 Army commercial blanks, with the standard commercial headstamp, for ceremonial use by veteran's organizations which had Krags, after the Army could no longer supply blanks. Commercial blanks were also used by the movie industry.

Value? Beats me. I would guess a couple of dollars each, but I am not a cartridge collector.

Jim

mapsjanhere · April 30, 2010, 07:12 AM

Well, I hadn't heard of paper bullets for blanks either, thanks Jim.

**Mike Irwin** · April 30, 2010, 05:54 PM

If all the headstamps are correct for the box that they're in, then I would say that the value is considerably more than a few dollars a piece.

I'd be curious, though, because to the best of my knowledge those kinds of blanks were never loaded by Winchester. All I have ever seen of Winchester loaded .30 Army blanks are the cardboard or phenolic resin (Bakelite) closure.

How about a picture?

James K · May 1, 2010, 07:34 PM

Quote from History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition:

"During the World War I period, the U.S. Navy let at least two contracts for paper bullet blank cartridges to be used in training. One of these in April, 1917, was to Winchester for 1.5 million rounds. These were loaded with tinned cases and white paper bullet. Typical headstamp is W.R.A. CO. 5 17. The other is a Remington contract which was made with a tinned brass case, whitish or yellow paper bullet and R A 17 or 18 headstamp ... 200,000 were delivered."

FWIW, I have seen a few of those Winchester rounds, but don't have any at the moment. I have never seen a Remington paper bullet blank for .30-40.

Jim

April 28, 2010, 09:42 PM	#1
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	30 Army paper bullets I ran across a box of 30 Army loaded with paper bullets still in the original Winchester box and was wondering how much the things were worth.

April 29, 2010, 09:04 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	I was so hoping someone would answer this, I've never heard of a 30-40 Krag still having used paper to seal the bullet. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

April 30, 2010, 07:12 AM	#4
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Well, I hadn't heard of paper bullets for blanks either, thanks Jim. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

April 30, 2010, 05:54 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	If all the headstamps are correct for the box that they're in, then I would say that the value is considerably more than a few dollars a piece. I'd be curious, though, because to the best of my knowledge those kinds of blanks were never loaded by Winchester. All I have ever seen of Winchester loaded .30 Army blanks are the cardboard or phenolic resin (Bakelite) closure. How about a picture? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 29, 2010, 10:17 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am pretty sure Ronl means paper bullets, not paper patched bullets. The Cartridge, Blank, Caliber .30, Model of 1896, used a formed paper bullet so it would feed through the rifle action, but would not be a danger when used in exercises. After the adoption of the Model 1903 rifle, paper bullet blanks were made for the .30-'03 (Model of 1903) and .30-'06 rifles (Model of 1906). The latter was produced by Frankford Arsenal until 1908, when the familiar cardboard wad blank was adopted. During and after WWI, the Navy let contracts to both Remington and Winchester for .30 Army paper bullet blanks for training, the largest contract being for 1.5 million cartridges, in April 1917. Those cases had military style headstamps with the contractor and the date. In addition, Winchester made .30 Army commercial blanks, with the standard commercial headstamp, for ceremonial use by veteran's organizations which had Krags, after the Army could no longer supply blanks. Commercial blanks were also used by the movie industry. Value? Beats me. I would guess a couple of dollars each, but I am not a cartridge collector. Jim

May 1, 2010, 07:34 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Quote from History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition: "During the World War I period, the U.S. Navy let at least two contracts for paper bullet blank cartridges to be used in training. One of these in April, 1917, was to Winchester for 1.5 million rounds. These were loaded with tinned cases and white paper bullet. Typical headstamp is W.R.A. CO. 5 17. The other is a Remington contract which was made with a tinned brass case, whitish or yellow paper bullet and R A 17 or 18 headstamp ... 200,000 were delivered." FWIW, I have seen a few of those Winchester rounds, but don't have any at the moment. I have never seen a Remington paper bullet blank for .30-40. Jim