Which bolt .223 - Page 2

NWPilgrim · October 23, 2013, 02:05 PM

Since you are living in Europe I would think the CZ and Tikka/Sako rifles would be a natural choice. I have a sako A7 that easily shoots 3/4" groups and my SIL has a Tikka T3 in .223 that is also very accurate. Tikka makes both a varmint version with a 1:12 twist and another one with a 1:8 rifling twist rate that would be perfect for the 63 gr bullets. Light crisp trigger, super smooth bolt, lightweight.

Rimfire5 · October 23, 2013, 02:09 PM

Scrumbag,

Remember that only the CZ Varmint has a 1:9 twist.

All the other CZs have a 1:12 twist, at least they used to have.

Be sure to check the twist on the American.

Scrumbag · October 24, 2013, 02:34 AM

NWPilgrim, yes in someways CZ or the Tikka/Sako are the most natural choice but that other great European brand Winchester (FN... :P) has a strong place in my heart.

Rimfire 5, according to CZs European Website, the American has 1:9 twist: http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/364-ce..._AMERICAN.aspx

The CZ-USA Website has the American listed as a 1:12 (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-american/)

This has got me a little concerned now. One to check out. Will report back.

ATB,

Scrummy

Scrumbag · October 24, 2013, 06:17 AM

And a few moments ago, straight from the horses mouth:

"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in rifles made by Ceska zbrojovka a.s.
I can assure you that in this case there is no discrepancy. The different twist rate is based on demands of our customers in the U.S. and Europe. Anyway we plan to unify the twist rate for the .223 Rem. cal. to be 1 : 9.
Anyway, for your convenience the website of our company business representative in Switzerland is: http://www.glaser-handels.ch/de/index.html

Yours faithfully,

MILAN KUBELE
MARKETING

ČESKÁ ZBROJOVKA A.S.
SVATOPLUKA ČECHA 1283
688 27 UHERSKÝ BROD, CZECH REPUBLIC
Fax : +420 572 633 811
Mail : [email protected]
WWW.CZUB.CZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Technical enquiry

Jméno: xxxx

Příjmení: xxxx

Ulice: xxxx

Město: Geneva

Země: Switzerland

PSČ/ZIP: 1207

E-mail: xxxxx

Telefon: xxxxx

Předmět: Technical enquiry

Informace o produktu

Označení modelu: CZ527 American (223Rem)

Zpráva:

Dear Sir or Madam

I have found a discrepancy in the specifications between CZs US and European websites

According to CZ's European Website, the CZ527 American (.223Rem) has 1:9 twist: http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/364-ce..._AMERICAN.aspx

The CZ-USA Website has the CZ527 American (.223Rem) listed as a 1:12 (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-american/)

Is the CZ527 American sold with different twist rates in different markets? Or is one of the websites incorrect? I would like to know as I would like to purchase a 527 with a 1:9 twist for heavier bullets.

I would appreciate a prompt response on this as I would like to make a purchase soon.

Kind regards,"

sirgilligan · October 25, 2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

And a few moments ago, straight from the horses mouth:

"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in rifles made by Ceska zbrojovka a.s.
I can assure you that in this case there is no discrepancy. The different twist rate is based on demands of our customers in the U.S. and Europe. Anyway we plan to unify the twist rate for the .223 Rem. cal. to be 1 : 9.
Anyway, for your convenience the website of our company business representative in Switzerland is: http://www.glaser-handels.ch/de/index.html

Yours faithfully,

MILAN KUBELE
MARKETING

That is great info. I just got the CZ .223 Varmint. Deadly accurate. It has the 1:9 twist. I would like an American with open sights as well.

I shot 35 gr all the way up to 75 grain. All good! Even shot 5.56 NATO. All good.

Got over 100 rounds through mine last week!

Scrumbag · October 26, 2013, 01:20 PM

Happy to be of help SirG.

Hoping to pick mine up in a couple of weeks. Have scope, itching to get it mounted.

Did you get the new style bolt handle? Alsom what rings and scope combo? Am going with a 3-9x36 on mine

If you want an American with irons they'll have to be aftermarket though I think.

ATB,

Scrummy

dalegribble · October 26, 2013, 02:46 PM

I saw a new American made rifle ad on tv, it is in 223 and takes ar-15 mags. i'm not sure if it is Mossberg or savage or some other make but I like the idea of the ar-15 mags fitting.

ripnbst · October 26, 2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalegribble

I saw a new American made rifle ad on tv, it is in 223 and takes ar-15 mags. i'm not sure if it is Mossberg or savage or some other make but I like the idea of the ar-15 mags fitting.

It's the Mossberg MVP.

BingoFuel · October 26, 2013, 07:18 PM

I voted 'other'. I can't say that I'm the most experienced bolt gun shooter, so I don't have a complete range of knowledge of all of the competitors. But I can say that when I took delivery of my Tikka LH Sporter in .308 I was stunned at how smooth the action was, the excellent trigger, and the repeatability on paper. Granted the Sporter is supposed to be a half-step up in the Tikka line and it's too heavy to be carried very far, but it's principally different in the barrel with much of the rest being the same as the T3.
And I am also thinking of buying the left hand Hunter in .223. They have a 1:8 and a 1:12 btw.
B

sirgilligan · October 27, 2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Happy to be of help SirG.

Hoping to pick mine up in a couple of weeks. Have scope, itching to get it mounted.

Did you get the new style bolt handle? Alsom what rings and scope combo? Am going with a 3-9x36 on mine

If you want an American with irons they'll have to be aftermarket though I think.

ATB,

Scrummy

I put a Leupold VX-R 4x12 30mm tube. I used the CZ rings after trying the CZ weaver rail and weaver style mounts finding that to be way to high.

I did use the CZ modified bolt handle. Clearance is good. I will put the original back on to see if it clears too.

Oh, I meant to say a CZ 527 Carbine in .223 REM, if that has a 1:9 twist I am all over that!

pitbill123 · October 27, 2013, 04:10 PM

I have a savage precision carbine in 223 and 308 and both are unreal shooters. They have the accustock and accutrigger and all ya need to do is put some good optics on it and you'd be amazed by the groups you'll get. But to be honest with ya you cant go wrong with just about any of these suggestions.

kerreckt · October 28, 2013, 05:06 PM

Savage with AccuTrigger and/or Vanguard. Take your pick. Each is a tackdriver with the right ammo. I can shoot 5 shot groups that can be covered with a nickel at 100yds. with either one.

rebs · October 30, 2013, 06:07 AM

Being a senior citizen I am looking for a new rifle that is not too heavy but is extremely accurate. A good barrel but not necessarily heavy bull barrel. I thought I was settled on a Savage but after reading this entire thread I may look at CZ as well.
I want a good stock, good trigger, good barrel. I am looking for a good out of the box 223 with no need to change anything.
I did see a Remington 700 BDL in 223 used with a scope for $800.00 but I am not sure about Remington and that maybe kind of high for a used rifle.

Scrumbag · October 30, 2013, 06:41 AM

Good choice on your scope: I'm going for a 2-9x36.

Just need the rifle to turn up so I can mount it now!

Scrummy

Meeteetse · November 4, 2013, 12:32 AM

Ruger 77 Hawkeye Compact. Mine is a great shooter and light weight even with a small 3x9 scope. Great varmint and small game gun.

taylorce1 · November 4, 2013, 12:41 AM

FN SPR is the closest thing you'll find to a M70 .223 right now. I don't know why Winchester dropped the .223, maybe because it was to simplify manufacturing by only needi g to make two different bolt faces.

Scrumbag · November 4, 2013, 02:49 AM

Thanks Taylorforce1, I agree it is the closest thing but it is ugly and heavy and I don't think I can find one over here in Europe.

ATB,

Scrummy

trigger643 · November 4, 2013, 06:37 AM

Based on my personal hands-on experience, if I were going European, it would be with a Sako 85 or Tikka T3.

The CZ seems to be a fine rifle and gets great reviews, however I've not owned nor shot one.

For US makes, The Weatherby Vanguard or a Savage 10.

I recently picked up a Mossberg MVP Varmint. There is a lot to like about this rifle. Though I'm unable to confirm it, it appears the 24" fluted bull barrel is likely an ER Shaw. The trigger once adjusted out is sublime, with a crisp 2.7# brake with almost no over travel (this will most likely clean up with use). It's ability to use AR magazines is wonderful. In 200 rounds, I've had zero FTF and zero FTE. Its accuracy compares favorably with my Tikka and Savage.

There are some annoyances, but no real problems with the rifle. The length of pull on the varmint stock as supplied from the factory is for a diminutive individual at a little over 13". This is easily rectified by adding spacers or a slip on pad.

The bolt. If a Tikka T3's bolt is a Bentley Mulsanne, the Mossberg MVP's bolt is a farm tractor. It's gritty, rough and forceful. But it is extremely positive and feeds and extracts cartridges with vigor.

View Poll Results: Which .223 bolt action?
CZ 527	15	24.59%
Winchester Model 70	12	19.67%
Ruger M77 Hawkeye	7	11.48%
Something else	27	44.26%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

October 23, 2013, 02:05 PM	#26
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Since you are living in Europe I would think the CZ and Tikka/Sako rifles would be a natural choice. I have a sako A7 that easily shoots 3/4" groups and my SIL has a Tikka T3 in .223 that is also very accurate. Tikka makes both a varmint version with a 1:12 twist and another one with a 1:8 rifling twist rate that would be perfect for the 63 gr bullets. Light crisp trigger, super smooth bolt, lightweight. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

October 26, 2013, 02:46 PM	#32
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	I saw a new American made rifle ad on tv, it is in 223 and takes ar-15 mags. i'm not sure if it is Mossberg or savage or some other make but I like the idea of the ar-15 mags fitting. __________________ Waltzes with woofs

October 30, 2013, 06:07 AM	#38
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Being a senior citizen I am looking for a new rifle that is not too heavy but is extremely accurate. A good barrel but not necessarily heavy bull barrel. I thought I was settled on a Savage but after reading this entire thread I may look at CZ as well. I want a good stock, good trigger, good barrel. I am looking for a good out of the box 223 with no need to change anything. I did see a Remington 700 BDL in 223 used with a scope for $800.00 but I am not sure about Remington and that maybe kind of high for a used rifle. Last edited by rebs; October 30, 2013 at 06:19 AM.

November 4, 2013, 12:32 AM	#40
Meeteetse Member Join Date: January 1, 2012 Location: Wyoming - Texas Posts: 69	Ruger 77 Hawkeye Compact. Mine is a great shooter and light weight even with a small 3x9 scope. Great varmint and small game gun. __________________ All it takes for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

October 23, 2013, 02:09 PM	#27
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	Scrumbag, Remember that only the CZ Varmint has a 1:9 twist. All the other CZs have a 1:12 twist, at least they used to have. Be sure to check the twist on the American.

October 24, 2013, 02:34 AM	#28
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	NWPilgrim, yes in someways CZ or the Tikka/Sako are the most natural choice but that other great European brand Winchester (FN... :P) has a strong place in my heart. Rimfire 5, according to CZs European Website, the American has 1:9 twist: http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/364-ce..._AMERICAN.aspx The CZ-USA Website has the American listed as a 1:12 (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-american/) This has got me a little concerned now. One to check out. Will report back. ATB, Scrummy

October 24, 2013, 06:17 AM	#29
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	And a few moments ago, straight from the horses mouth: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your interest in rifles made by Ceska zbrojovka a.s. I can assure you that in this case there is no discrepancy. The different twist rate is based on demands of our customers in the U.S. and Europe. Anyway we plan to unify the twist rate for the .223 Rem. cal. to be 1 : 9. Anyway, for your convenience the website of our company business representative in Switzerland is: http://www.glaser-handels.ch/de/index.html Yours faithfully, MILAN KUBELE MARKETING ČESKÁ ZBROJOVKA A.S. SVATOPLUKA ČECHA 1283 688 27 UHERSKÝ BROD, CZECH REPUBLIC Fax : +420 572 633 811 Mail : [email protected] WWW.CZUB.CZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Technical enquiry Jméno: xxxx Příjmení: xxxx Ulice: xxxx Město: Geneva Země: Switzerland PSČ/ZIP: 1207 E-mail: xxxxx Telefon: xxxxx Předmět: Technical enquiry Informace o produktu Označení modelu: CZ527 American (223Rem) Zpráva: Dear Sir or Madam I have found a discrepancy in the specifications between CZs US and European websites According to CZ's European Website, the CZ527 American (.223Rem) has 1:9 twist: http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/364-ce..._AMERICAN.aspx The CZ-USA Website has the CZ527 American (.223Rem) listed as a 1:12 (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-american/) Is the CZ527 American sold with different twist rates in different markets? Or is one of the websites incorrect? I would like to know as I would like to purchase a 527 with a 1:9 twist for heavier bullets. I would appreciate a prompt response on this as I would like to make a purchase soon. Kind regards,"

October 26, 2013, 01:20 PM	#31
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	Happy to be of help SirG. Hoping to pick mine up in a couple of weeks. Have scope, itching to get it mounted. Did you get the new style bolt handle? Alsom what rings and scope combo? Am going with a 3-9x36 on mine If you want an American with irons they'll have to be aftermarket though I think. ATB, Scrummy

October 26, 2013, 07:18 PM	#34
BingoFuel Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 99	I voted 'other'. I can't say that I'm the most experienced bolt gun shooter, so I don't have a complete range of knowledge of all of the competitors. But I can say that when I took delivery of my Tikka LH Sporter in .308 I was stunned at how smooth the action was, the excellent trigger, and the repeatability on paper. Granted the Sporter is supposed to be a half-step up in the Tikka line and it's too heavy to be carried very far, but it's principally different in the barrel with much of the rest being the same as the T3. And I am also thinking of buying the left hand Hunter in .223. They have a 1:8 and a 1:12 btw. B

October 27, 2013, 04:10 PM	#36
pitbill123 Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Location: Peoples Republic of NY Posts: 12	I have a savage precision carbine in 223 and 308 and both are unreal shooters. They have the accustock and accutrigger and all ya need to do is put some good optics on it and you'd be amazed by the groups you'll get. But to be honest with ya you cant go wrong with just about any of these suggestions.

October 28, 2013, 05:06 PM	#37
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	Savage with AccuTrigger and/or Vanguard. Take your pick. Each is a tackdriver with the right ammo. I can shoot 5 shot groups that can be covered with a nickel at 100yds. with either one.

October 30, 2013, 06:41 AM	#39
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	Good choice on your scope: I'm going for a 2-9x36. Just need the rifle to turn up so I can mount it now! Scrummy

November 4, 2013, 12:41 AM	#41
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	FN SPR is the closest thing you'll find to a M70 .223 right now. I don't know why Winchester dropped the .223, maybe because it was to simplify manufacturing by only needi g to make two different bolt faces. __________________ NRA Life Member

November 4, 2013, 02:49 AM	#42
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	Thanks Taylorforce1, I agree it is the closest thing but it is ugly and heavy and I don't think I can find one over here in Europe. ATB, Scrummy

November 4, 2013, 06:37 AM	#43
trigger643 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2011 Posts: 322	Based on my personal hands-on experience, if I were going European, it would be with a Sako 85 or Tikka T3. The CZ seems to be a fine rifle and gets great reviews, however I've not owned nor shot one. For US makes, The Weatherby Vanguard or a Savage 10. I recently picked up a Mossberg MVP Varmint. There is a lot to like about this rifle. Though I'm unable to confirm it, it appears the 24" fluted bull barrel is likely an ER Shaw. The trigger once adjusted out is sublime, with a crisp 2.7# brake with almost no over travel (this will most likely clean up with use). It's ability to use AR magazines is wonderful. In 200 rounds, I've had zero FTF and zero FTE. Its accuracy compares favorably with my Tikka and Savage. There are some annoyances, but no real problems with the rifle. The length of pull on the varmint stock as supplied from the factory is for a diminutive individual at a little over 13". This is easily rectified by adding spacers or a slip on pad. The bolt. If a Tikka T3's bolt is a Bentley Mulsanne, the Mossberg MVP's bolt is a farm tractor. It's gritty, rough and forceful. But it is extremely positive and feeds and extracts cartridges with vigor.