.223 Reloading Brass: New Lapua or Once Fired Lake City

M4Carbine503 · February 24, 2015, 01:45 AM

Long time reader, first time poster. But here's my question fellas. I am getting into reloading 223. I have heard and read many good things about Lapua brass. I know it comes at a premium price though. The cheapest I can find it new is for $45 per 100 rounds. I hear you can get many reloads out of it, I'm just not sure how many. I realize there are several factors that go into an answer for that, ie pressure loads, and how well you treat the brass.

Or should I go with once fired brass, which is mixed 223/5.56 and mainly Lake City for a far greater savings. Granted I probably won't get anywhere near the amount of reloads per cartridge like I would with the Lapua. But is it worth the price and in the long run come out to be a better deal?

I will be primarily bench rest shooting and will be using Sierra Matchking 69gr BTHP bullets and CCI 450 primers. I do not shoot competition, so exact precision isn't necessary. But it would be nice to get sub MOA groups at 100 yards. Does casing weight variances make much of a difference when it comes to tight groupings? Is this something else to consider?

noylj · February 24, 2015, 02:47 AM

1) Are you loading for accuracy? If so, get the Lapua.
2) Are you loading to blast away and have fun? Get the once fired.

Shootest · February 24, 2015, 03:02 AM

I have 5k of the LC brass and I use it for everyday target shooting. I also have 100 Lapua that I use when I want to impress my fellow shooters.
I believe I can get the LC to shoot as good as any brass if I put enough work into it, sizing, trimming, weighing, and sorting.

cryogenic419 · February 24, 2015, 06:09 AM

Properly prepped LC brass along with good loading technique could give you what you are after at a fraction of the cost of Lapua.

For what its worth, there are lots of folks out there who shoot competitively with service rifle out to 600 yards accurately using once fired LC. All comes down to your gun, your loading technique and case prep, and ultimately the shooter.

TMD · February 24, 2015, 06:17 AM

Sorry but I have to ask. What powder are planning on using that you need magnum primers?

M4Carbine503 · February 24, 2015, 12:37 PM

Hodgdon H335 for now. I would like to get some Ramshot TAC but that stuff is long gone around here.

Metal god · February 24, 2015, 01:38 PM

Semi auto or bolt gun ?

You should get 4 to 8 loads per case using a semi auto .

If sized right by only bumping the shoulders back a couple thousandths and dies that don"t over work the brass ( Redding bushing dies ) . You can and should get 20+ loads per case using a bolt gun .

No need spending big money on brass you may only load 4 times

IMHO
Semi = LC cases

Bolt action = Lapua cases

That all said I use LC & WCC cases for my 308 bolt action and have loads that shoot sub moa 10 shot groups . There is a lot of case prep though .

Jbotto · February 24, 2015, 01:44 PM

From my view on this, I'd go with the once fired for now. Be meticulous in sorting and prep and it's very possible to get that stuff to shoot sub-MOA. My latest load uses the defamed GFL brass with it's flash holes running all around center of primer pocket. It was once fired brass that I put through a full length sizing die and did some load work up. With cheap bullets, I was able to go under MOA with quite a few groups. Not bad for a pencil-barreled Savage. I digress... Go with the once fired, it's more bang for your buck. Unless you have a high dollar bench gun, I don't see the need for fancy brass.

M4Carbine503 · February 24, 2015, 02:40 PM

Thanks guys. It is a semi auto and I have a Forster full length sizing die as well as a bullet seater. I wasn't sure if going with brass that had a crimped primer pocket made the pockets loose and sloppy faster than non crimped. And how would various weight brass affect grouping accuracy?

Metal god · February 24, 2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

I wasn't sure if going with brass that had a crimped primer pocket made the pockets loose and sloppy faster than non crimped.

Short answer . I have not found this to be an issue in either my 308 loads or my AR loads .

FWIW . I also loads LC cases in my NM rifle ( AR/M16 platform ) and have a load that also shoots a sub moa 10 shot group .

Im with JBOTTO Be meticulous in sorting and prep and the LC stuff should be fine . I sort mine by year . Everything I load for my NM rifle is LC-14 how ever I do load some 55gr plinking ammo using mixed LC cases LC-11 thru 13 .

Rimfire5 · February 25, 2015, 08:39 AM

I load for a Les Baer .223 Super Varmint 1:8 twist and mostly shoot off a bench at targets. I have used Lapua brass exclusively for my bolt action .223 CZ 527 and average 20 reloads per case. Since the Les Baer is built for accuracy, I figured I would use Lapua brass to try to get the most out of it.

So I started with a new set of 100 Lapua brass when I got my new Les Baer. So far I have reloaded the 100 cases, 10 times with no issues. I have lost 3 cases at the range to date and continue loading 97 cases so I have migrated to a Caldwell brass catcher that also keeps the cases from bouncing off the tarmac range floor and messing up the necks.

Since I wanted to test the Les Baer guarantee of 5 rounds under 0.5 inches at 100 yards and to see if I could duplicate the test target that came with the rifle, I shot a lot of Federal Premium Gold Match ammo with the 77 grain and 69 grain Match King bullets.
So with all those Federal cases available, I also reloaded with used Federal brass with the Les Baer and have shot 727 reloads using 120 cases with no problems so far with a average of 6 reloads per case.

I have not noticed any accuracy differences between the brass. The only differences come from the powder loads, seating depth, and bullet types and of course from shooter errors.

The Les Baer extractor is pretty easy on brass, much easier than my other .223. With the other .223, I don't get anywhere near 6 reloads on brass because it chews up rims and makes them hard to get into a shell holder after a few reloads.

I would recommend that you try the Lake City once fired brass and see if it works for you. You can always buy some Lapua brass if you want to try it.
If you don't load your rounds too hot, you shouldn't see problems unless you have an extractor that is rough on brass.

Loading Options:
Lake City cases and Lapua cases have different brass thickness and you'll need to adjust the powder charges slightly to accommodate the difference in pressure created by the differences in case capacity. Not a big deal but you can't assume a load in a Lake City case will be equally accurate in the Lapua case with the same load.

Primers:
I load with CCI #400 primers and would not recommend using the #450 magnum primers with H335 or any of the faster powders. I have shot very accurately in cold temperatures with the #400 primers and don't see the need to use magnums.
If you intend to shoot 69 or 77 grain bullets (1:8 twist or 1:7 twist barrels), I have found better accuracy with slower powders - Varmint, H4895, N140 and Reloader 15.
With lighter bullets, I get the best accuracy with the faster powders - H335, N130 and N133.

603Country · February 25, 2015, 09:10 AM

I get essentially the same accuracy from Lapua/Norma/Nosler that I do from the others, but I have to prep the others. I don't prep Lapua/Norma/Nosler brass, which is a good part of the reason that I buy it.

A couple of years ago I was testing various reloading dies for best accuracy. When all of that was finished, I had some reloaded rounds left over that would shoot real well and I had a box of mixed brass, some of which had been prepped and some that had not been prepped. I loaded up a bunch of the mixed brass and shot them for 10 shot groups. The 'good' brass reloads shot slightly better groups than the prepped/unprepped mixed brass reloads did, but the difference was not large. For hunting purposes, other than ground squirrels at 500 yards, I doubt it would make much difference. Of course, if you are an accuracy fanatic, then it would matter.

February 24, 2015, 01:45 AM	#1
M4Carbine503 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2015 Location: Southern Washington Posts: 10	.223 Reloading Brass: New Lapua or Once Fired Lake City Long time reader, first time poster. But here's my question fellas. I am getting into reloading 223. I have heard and read many good things about Lapua brass. I know it comes at a premium price though. The cheapest I can find it new is for $45 per 100 rounds. I hear you can get many reloads out of it, I'm just not sure how many. I realize there are several factors that go into an answer for that, ie pressure loads, and how well you treat the brass. Or should I go with once fired brass, which is mixed 223/5.56 and mainly Lake City for a far greater savings. Granted I probably won't get anywhere near the amount of reloads per cartridge like I would with the Lapua. But is it worth the price and in the long run come out to be a better deal? I will be primarily bench rest shooting and will be using Sierra Matchking 69gr BTHP bullets and CCI 450 primers. I do not shoot competition, so exact precision isn't necessary. But it would be nice to get sub MOA groups at 100 yards. Does casing weight variances make much of a difference when it comes to tight groupings? Is this something else to consider?

February 24, 2015, 03:02 AM	#3
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	I have 5k of the LC brass and I use it for everyday target shooting. I also have 100 Lapua that I use when I want to impress my fellow shooters. I believe I can get the LC to shoot as good as any brass if I put enough work into it, sizing, trimming, weighing, and sorting. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

February 24, 2015, 01:38 PM	#7
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Semi auto or bolt gun ? You should get 4 to 8 loads per case using a semi auto . If sized right by only bumping the shoulders back a couple thousandths and dies that don"t over work the brass ( Redding bushing dies ) . You can and should get 20+ loads per case using a bolt gun . No need spending big money on brass you may only load 4 times IMHO Semi = LC cases Bolt action = Lapua cases That all said I use LC & WCC cases for my 308 bolt action and have loads that shoot sub moa 10 shot groups . There is a lot of case prep though . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 25, 2015, 08:39 AM	#11
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	I load for a Les Baer .223 Super Varmint 1:8 twist and mostly shoot off a bench at targets. I have used Lapua brass exclusively for my bolt action .223 CZ 527 and average 20 reloads per case. Since the Les Baer is built for accuracy, I figured I would use Lapua brass to try to get the most out of it. So I started with a new set of 100 Lapua brass when I got my new Les Baer. So far I have reloaded the 100 cases, 10 times with no issues. I have lost 3 cases at the range to date and continue loading 97 cases so I have migrated to a Caldwell brass catcher that also keeps the cases from bouncing off the tarmac range floor and messing up the necks. Since I wanted to test the Les Baer guarantee of 5 rounds under 0.5 inches at 100 yards and to see if I could duplicate the test target that came with the rifle, I shot a lot of Federal Premium Gold Match ammo with the 77 grain and 69 grain Match King bullets. So with all those Federal cases available, I also reloaded with used Federal brass with the Les Baer and have shot 727 reloads using 120 cases with no problems so far with a average of 6 reloads per case. I have not noticed any accuracy differences between the brass. The only differences come from the powder loads, seating depth, and bullet types and of course from shooter errors. The Les Baer extractor is pretty easy on brass, much easier than my other .223. With the other .223, I don't get anywhere near 6 reloads on brass because it chews up rims and makes them hard to get into a shell holder after a few reloads. I would recommend that you try the Lake City once fired brass and see if it works for you. You can always buy some Lapua brass if you want to try it. If you don't load your rounds too hot, you shouldn't see problems unless you have an extractor that is rough on brass. Loading Options: Lake City cases and Lapua cases have different brass thickness and you'll need to adjust the powder charges slightly to accommodate the difference in pressure created by the differences in case capacity. Not a big deal but you can't assume a load in a Lake City case will be equally accurate in the Lapua case with the same load. Primers: I load with CCI #400 primers and would not recommend using the #450 magnum primers with H335 or any of the faster powders. I have shot very accurately in cold temperatures with the #400 primers and don't see the need to use magnums. If you intend to shoot 69 or 77 grain bullets (1:8 twist or 1:7 twist barrels), I have found better accuracy with slower powders - Varmint, H4895, N140 and Reloader 15. With lighter bullets, I get the best accuracy with the faster powders - H335, N130 and N133. Last edited by Rimfire5; February 25, 2015 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Added comment on using magnum primers and faster powders

February 24, 2015, 02:47 AM	#2
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	1) Are you loading for accuracy? If so, get the Lapua. 2) Are you loading to blast away and have fun? Get the once fired.

February 24, 2015, 06:09 AM	#4
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	Properly prepped LC brass along with good loading technique could give you what you are after at a fraction of the cost of Lapua. For what its worth, there are lots of folks out there who shoot competitively with service rifle out to 600 yards accurately using once fired LC. All comes down to your gun, your loading technique and case prep, and ultimately the shooter.

February 24, 2015, 06:17 AM	#5
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	Sorry but I have to ask. What powder are planning on using that you need magnum primers?

February 24, 2015, 12:37 PM	#6
M4Carbine503 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2015 Location: Southern Washington Posts: 10	Hodgdon H335 for now. I would like to get some Ramshot TAC but that stuff is long gone around here.

February 24, 2015, 01:44 PM	#8
Jbotto Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: MN Posts: 437	From my view on this, I'd go with the once fired for now. Be meticulous in sorting and prep and it's very possible to get that stuff to shoot sub-MOA. My latest load uses the defamed GFL brass with it's flash holes running all around center of primer pocket. It was once fired brass that I put through a full length sizing die and did some load work up. With cheap bullets, I was able to go under MOA with quite a few groups. Not bad for a pencil-barreled Savage. I digress... Go with the once fired, it's more bang for your buck. Unless you have a high dollar bench gun, I don't see the need for fancy brass.

February 24, 2015, 02:40 PM	#9
M4Carbine503 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2015 Location: Southern Washington Posts: 10	Thanks guys. It is a semi auto and I have a Forster full length sizing die as well as a bullet seater. I wasn't sure if going with brass that had a crimped primer pocket made the pockets loose and sloppy faster than non crimped. And how would various weight brass affect grouping accuracy?

February 25, 2015, 09:10 AM	#12
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I get essentially the same accuracy from Lapua/Norma/Nosler that I do from the others, but I have to prep the others. I don't prep Lapua/Norma/Nosler brass, which is a good part of the reason that I buy it. A couple of years ago I was testing various reloading dies for best accuracy. When all of that was finished, I had some reloaded rounds left over that would shoot real well and I had a box of mixed brass, some of which had been prepped and some that had not been prepped. I loaded up a bunch of the mixed brass and shot them for 10 shot groups. The 'good' brass reloads shot slightly better groups than the prepped/unprepped mixed brass reloads did, but the difference was not large. For hunting purposes, other than ground squirrels at 500 yards, I doubt it would make much difference. Of course, if you are an accuracy fanatic, then it would matter.