Taper Crimp setup?

MilesTeg · December 6, 2002, 02:39 AM

I am new to reloading and just setup my Hornady Lock and Load AP. I am reloading .480 Ruger and have all the dies set correctly except the taper crimp die. It is a 4 die set for the .480 but there were no instructions on how to properly setup the taper crimp. How do I set it up and is it absolutely necessary to taper crimp after the bullet has been seated?

labgrade · December 6, 2002, 03:34 AM

Zip experience with the .480, but a taper crimp's usually used with a semi-auto (is it? I haven't a clue.) & allows the cartridge to headspace on the brass mouth rather than the rim.

Crimp enough to remove all belling. I take it a tad further & crimp slightly to put the mouth just into the bullet.

Not usually crimped as hard as you would with a roll crimp - different kinda deal.

buford1 · December 6, 2002, 05:14 AM

I have never loaded 480, I have loaded 454 casull and it gets a heavy roll crimp.. The only time i have used taper crimp was on auto loaders that head space on the cartridge. and all that i have loaded didnt have a cannalure on the bullet, 45 acp, and 30 carbine.Does the die say taper crimp on it, if not it should be a roll crimp Do your bullets have a cannalure ? I would say the 480 would require a heavy roll crimp. Double check instructions, RCBS instructions come with both crimping procedures.

sierra338 · December 6, 2002, 07:04 AM

I have experience with taper crimp, but not with the lock and load system, I use a rock chucker. However, my general rule of thumb with taper crimp is to run a round up on the press and adjust the crimp die down over the round just using my hand until I can't turn it any more. I have found it to be a feel thing.

Also, if you are using a slower burning powder, you may want a little more crimp. If that's needed, I adjust the die one flat (lock nut RCBS dies) down and test until the velocity straightens out.

Ryan

stans · December 6, 2002, 09:38 AM

I have not had really great results with taper crimping revolver rounds. Taper crimps remove the belling for better feed reliability and will provide enough tension to, hopefully, prevent the bullet from being pushed deeper into the case during feeding. My revolvers seem to perform better with roll crimps ranging from just a little for light loads to a heavy crimp for magnum loads. The roll crimp prevents bullets from being pulled out of the case during recoil. And yes, a good roll crimp does require uniformly trimmed cases, but hey, it is a revolver, you won't be losing your brass.

BJordan71 · December 6, 2002, 10:37 AM

I can't tell you about the .480 but I can comment on Lee Factory Carbide crimp dies in 9MM, 38/357M, and .45ACP on the L-N-L AP. First, take the lock ring off the die and turn it over to give you a little extra length on the die, they're almost too short to work in the AP. Also, I had to chuck the dies up in my lathe and turn them down a tad at the mouth to clear the loaded round ejector. I have mine screwed down to where they almost touch the shell plate and everything works just fine. The only problem you might have is the taper crimp may not be strong enough to hold against heavy recoil, that is if the .480 could be considered to have heavy recoil.

I loaded some medium .357's and had no trouble with the taper crimp letting go but my only .357 is a *&* Model 19 so it doesn't see too much heavy recoil.

Best of luck,
Stay safe.

MilesTeg · December 6, 2002, 02:10 PM

Thank you everyone for the replies. The dies are from Hornady and I am a bit perplexed as to why they would include a Taper Crimp die if it is a revolver round since it sounds like you would only need it for a semi-auto. The die is marked ".480 Ruger TC" which I assume stands for taper crimp. Does the roll crimp take place within the seating die or do I need to get a special roll crimp die and change it out with the TC? Without the TC the case mouth diameter is .501 with the TC is it .500. For comparison a factory loaded round measured at .501.

I would say it is a heavy recoiling round. Much more than any 44 Mag I have shot. The heaviest loads are a 400 grain bullet with 21.0 of H110 at about 1200 FPS and a 325 grain bullet backed with 27.3 of H110 for 1500 FPS. However, I am starting out way below those levels.

BJordan71 · December 6, 2002, 03:01 PM

It's possible the TC means Truncated Cone not Taper Crimp, referring to the profile of the bullet seat punch. Give Hornady a shout, what few times I've called them they we're very pleasant to deal with.

Stay safe.

cheygriz · December 6, 2002, 04:25 PM

Forget the taper crimp in the .480 and get a roll crimp die that will put in a VERY HEAVY roll crimp!

A heavy crimp will increase bullet pull, resulting in better, more consistent burning of the slow burning powder used in this cartridge, and will also prevent bullets from "walking" out of the case and tying up your cylinder.

MilesTeg · December 6, 2002, 05:16 PM

Called Hornady and the "TC" does stand for taper crimp. The tech I talked to said he does not use the TC and just goes with the crimp from the seating die and instead uses a powder cop with the space that is freed up.

Bill Adair · December 6, 2002, 06:25 PM

I agree with cheygriz, the .480 rounds should be roll crimped.

I've used a taper crimp on 357, and even 45 Colt, but only for low to medium power loads, and only when using bullets without a crimp groove.

The crimp groove is there for a reason, one of which is showing you the proper bullet seating depth for that particular bullet!

Your seating die should have a roll crimp shoulder inside, and setting the die adjustment is pretty easy on a single stage press.

Ask if you need instructions, but I've only done this on my single stage press, so setting up the AP is going to be complicated a little by the moving shell plate. Someone else with L-N-L AP experience may want to jump in here.

Bill

December 6, 2002, 02:39 AM	#1
MilesTeg Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 227	Taper Crimp setup? I am new to reloading and just setup my Hornady Lock and Load AP. I am reloading .480 Ruger and have all the dies set correctly except the taper crimp die. It is a 4 die set for the .480 but there were no instructions on how to properly setup the taper crimp. How do I set it up and is it absolutely necessary to taper crimp after the bullet has been seated?

December 6, 2002, 07:04 AM	#4
sierra338 Junior Member Join Date: September 9, 2002 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9	I have experience with taper crimp, but not with the lock and load system, I use a rock chucker. However, my general rule of thumb with taper crimp is to run a round up on the press and adjust the crimp die down over the round just using my hand until I can't turn it any more. I have found it to be a feel thing. Also, if you are using a slower burning powder, you may want a little more crimp. If that's needed, I adjust the die one flat (lock nut RCBS dies) down and test until the velocity straightens out. Ryan __________________ There are those to whom knowledge is a weapon. Others to whom it is a shield. Neither is balanced. One is less unwise.

December 6, 2002, 10:37 AM	#6
BJordan71 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2001 Location: Heart of Georgia Posts: 110	I can't tell you about the .480 but I can comment on Lee Factory Carbide crimp dies in 9MM, 38/357M, and .45ACP on the L-N-L AP. First, take the lock ring off the die and turn it over to give you a little extra length on the die, they're almost too short to work in the AP. Also, I had to chuck the dies up in my lathe and turn them down a tad at the mouth to clear the loaded round ejector. I have mine screwed down to where they almost touch the shell plate and everything works just fine. The only problem you might have is the taper crimp may not be strong enough to hold against heavy recoil, that is if the .480 could be considered to have heavy recoil. I loaded some medium .357's and had no trouble with the taper crimp letting go but my only .357 is a & Model 19 so it doesn't see too much heavy recoil. Best of luck, Stay safe. __________________ Boy, you're about as useful as a Glock revolver. TFL#12525

December 6, 2002, 03:01 PM	#8
BJordan71 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2001 Location: Heart of Georgia Posts: 110	It's possible the TC means Truncated Cone not Taper Crimp, referring to the profile of the bullet seat punch. Give Hornady a shout, what few times I've called them they we're very pleasant to deal with. Stay safe. __________________ Boy, you're about as useful as a Glock revolver. TFL#12525

December 6, 2002, 04:25 PM	#9
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Forget the taper crimp in the .480 and get a roll crimp die that will put in a VERY HEAVY roll crimp! A heavy crimp will increase bullet pull, resulting in better, more consistent burning of the slow burning powder used in this cartridge, and will also prevent bullets from "walking" out of the case and tying up your cylinder. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

December 6, 2002, 03:34 AM	#2
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Zip experience with the .480, but a taper crimp's usually used with a semi-auto (is it? I haven't a clue.) & allows the cartridge to headspace on the brass mouth rather than the rim. Crimp enough to remove all belling. I take it a tad further & crimp slightly to put the mouth just into the bullet. Not usually crimped as hard as you would with a roll crimp - different kinda deal.

December 6, 2002, 05:14 AM	#3
buford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2002 Location: long beach.CA Posts: 116	I have never loaded 480, I have loaded 454 casull and it gets a heavy roll crimp.. The only time i have used taper crimp was on auto loaders that head space on the cartridge. and all that i have loaded didnt have a cannalure on the bullet, 45 acp, and 30 carbine.Does the die say taper crimp on it, if not it should be a roll crimp Do your bullets have a cannalure ? I would say the 480 would require a heavy roll crimp. Double check instructions, RCBS instructions come with both crimping procedures.

December 6, 2002, 09:38 AM	#5
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I have not had really great results with taper crimping revolver rounds. Taper crimps remove the belling for better feed reliability and will provide enough tension to, hopefully, prevent the bullet from being pushed deeper into the case during feeding. My revolvers seem to perform better with roll crimps ranging from just a little for light loads to a heavy crimp for magnum loads. The roll crimp prevents bullets from being pulled out of the case during recoil. And yes, a good roll crimp does require uniformly trimmed cases, but hey, it is a revolver, you won't be losing your brass.

December 6, 2002, 02:10 PM	#7
MilesTeg Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 227	Thank you everyone for the replies. The dies are from Hornady and I am a bit perplexed as to why they would include a Taper Crimp die if it is a revolver round since it sounds like you would only need it for a semi-auto. The die is marked ".480 Ruger TC" which I assume stands for taper crimp. Does the roll crimp take place within the seating die or do I need to get a special roll crimp die and change it out with the TC? Without the TC the case mouth diameter is .501 with the TC is it .500. For comparison a factory loaded round measured at .501. I would say it is a heavy recoiling round. Much more than any 44 Mag I have shot. The heaviest loads are a 400 grain bullet with 21.0 of H110 at about 1200 FPS and a 325 grain bullet backed with 27.3 of H110 for 1500 FPS. However, I am starting out way below those levels.

December 6, 2002, 05:16 PM	#10
MilesTeg Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 227	Called Hornady and the "TC" does stand for taper crimp. The tech I talked to said he does not use the TC and just goes with the crimp from the seating die and instead uses a powder cop with the space that is freed up.

December 6, 2002, 06:25 PM	#11
Bill Adair Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Seattle/Tacoma, WA USA Posts: 345	I agree with cheygriz, the .480 rounds should be roll crimped. I've used a taper crimp on 357, and even 45 Colt, but only for low to medium power loads, and only when using bullets without a crimp groove. The crimp groove is there for a reason, one of which is showing you the proper bullet seating depth for that particular bullet! Your seating die should have a roll crimp shoulder inside, and setting the die adjustment is pretty easy on a single stage press. Ask if you need instructions, but I've only done this on my single stage press, so setting up the AP is going to be complicated a little by the moving shell plate. Someone else with L-N-L AP experience may want to jump in here. Bill