Paper cartridge rolling paper... what do you use?

[NateKirk]

Hi everyone
I'm am thinking about starting to roll paper cartridges for my colt navy but am unsure as to what type of paper to use. Regular computer or notebook paper probably wont do right? What do you guys use? Wax paper? Cigarette tubing? Is there a special rolling paper? You suggestions please : )

[noelf2]

Some use roll-your-own cigarette papers. Some use "nitrated" phonebook paper.

[Kappe]

I use cigarette rolling papers and I think most folks do. There are ways of making your own nitrated paper like with phonebook paper as noelf2 said. I'd stick with rolling papers for starting out though.

[Hawg]

Tea bags. They don't need nitrating.

[mehavey]

Tea bag material "self immolates" ?

I've always used rolling papers for the Sharps.
But if teabags are a step up....

[noelf2]

Tea bag material is made from some kind of banana tree fibers (abaca paper) and bananas are sort of gun shaped... hmm... Is there a connection?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

If I were to try using cigarette papers. I know from past experiences the charge would turn out looking like a camels hump. (Thick fingers)._

[mehavey]

I compared the burn rate (match-lit) of an EZ-wider rolling paper, and a (split-lengthwise) Chateau SafeWay green bag bag.

The tea bag self-immolated noticeably faster.
(`Could almost hear a quiet "whoosh")

Learn something new every day....









(Fire Marshal's probably now gonna want to know if my wife's properly stored the green tea)

[4V50 Gary]

Cigarette paper. It's not just for smoking.

[luvtoav8]

Many model airplane builders still use a material called silkspan to cover the frame work, especially of the control line type airplanes. It is attached to the frame work and sealed with nitrate dope. It is the same material used to make tea bags may be cheaper than buying and cutting open a bunch of teabags. See here:

http://brodak.com/silkspan-lite-whit...-2-sheets.html

[DD4lifeusmc]

quickest and easiest and most widely available.
Plain old cigaretter rolling paper.
Already nitrated and pretty close in size.
You need to take a 3/8 to 7/16 dowel.
Taper one end about an inch in from end, like a pencil
but leave the tip about 1/4 inch in diameter.
Slick it up real good with varathane / wax polish etc.
roll the cartridge around the dowel.
glue strip up facing you. Leave just enough paper past end of dowel
to fold over. Use the glue strip to seal length and the folded over part.
Elmers glue stick helps too if you have a problem.
Make yourself loading block from a scrap of wood.
Drill a series of 7/16 to 1/2 in holes about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep.
Place the tube in hole folded end down.
Fill with powder.
Now you can twist the tail or tie it off as I do.
Cotton / polyester thread. I tie one loop, wrap thread back around then tie with square knot. trim off excess paper.
Load in chamber folded end down.
On the first tie, I use a timber style start, you know the first cross over you do tying shoes? well cross through twice.
More friction knot stays tighter.
You may have to prick the paper before loading or through nipple.
I don't. Always has fired for me.
I use real BP in the cartridge against nipple.

[NateKirk]

I just burned up a tea bag and it seems to burn a LOT faster than cigarette paper does. I guess I could get a box of black tea and cut the bags open and save the tea in a jar

[Slopemeno]

I used plain 'ol Zig Zags. I wrapped them around a piece of dowel like DD4life. No ignition issues with Pyrodex in a Colonial percussion single shot.

[rodwhaincamo]

I used American Spirits papers made of flax. They worked great, but I often found tiny pieces of paper down in the chambers. I tried firing 3 cylinders full to see if it caused a problem, and it did not. I was using Triple 7, which may have made it easier to deal with as it's not as fouling as Pyrodex or real BP.

I bought stump remover and nitrated some papers, but it was so tedious I lost interest.

I recently bought reusable rubber speed loader tubes from Winchester Suttler (the ones Dixie Gun Works still haven't restocked in over 6 months). I've yet to use them as I'm still getting over surgery, but I'm hoping to go by the end of the month or beginning of next. 50 of them for $10 isn't too bad.

[gasmandave]

Back in the 70's I used rolling papers roll one around a pencil and using watered down "elmers" I glued the edges, then once dry I cut the paper in half and set it on a lead ball and used the watered down glue to affix it. Then After it dried I poured in my powder charge folded it over and put a dab of glue on that. Once all had been dry for a day or two I heated a can of neutral shoe polish and dipped the ball in the polish. Let it set until it's cooled and there ya go. The polish seals the ball to prevent chain fires. Only once in a while would I have a miss fire due to the glue spot being under the nipple. A straight pin cures that.

[emishi]

I have a .375" dowel tapered and rounded to fit my Uberti's chambers and marked for depth. I use coated typing paper, cut to rolling paper size. I don't glue any ends. I place the dowel in the center of the paper and pull both the ends up to the depth mark.

Using white glue, I glue the edges together length-wise up the dowel, doing a military style crease at the bottom of the paper, forming an enclosed tube... the open neck of which is .380" due to the taper (same as the round ball and conicals I use).

With this setup, I don't have to worry about misfires as there is only 1 layer of paper (and no glue) for the cap to blow thru. I load powder, some grits, a wax wad and slowly work a waxed .380 ball or conical into the tube to finish it off. The round ball obviously goes in easier than the conical, as the air escapes the tube more easily around a ball versus the waxed grooves of the conical.

The typing paper is a bit stronger than rolling papers and can take a bit more force to load than the thinner rolling paper. It burns as quickly as paper nitrated with stump remover, so that becomes an unnecessary chore.

This makes for a nice, tightly packed round (similar to a brass cartridge) and easily loaded without the worry of tearing or spilling.

[rodwhaincamo]

I have since bought speed loader tubes from Winchester Sutler. $10/50 tubes that are reusable. Just cap it with a projectile.

http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#QCTube

[maillemaker]

Yup, that is what the N-SSA folks use as a modern convenience.

But the period way these things were usually loaded is with consumable paper cartridges.

Steve

[rodwhaincamo]

True. And I tried it. I enjoyed making my cigarette paper cartridges, but lost interest when I tried nitrating them.

[Blind Pugh]

Hi

I have had some success using Magician's flash paper. A sort of pre nitrated paper that completely consumes without a discernable trace.
I use a similar plug to everyone else, gives me approx 20 grains in a 44 revolver. I initially used flour and water paste to stick the cone but have tried copydex, uhu and they all do a similar job.
The flash paper is pretty fragile so the end result is much the same and won't put up with rough handling. I have used both a ball and a conical bullet with similar results. It is a time-consuming project but something that can be done when it's pouring with rain (as it is today!).
On the subject of conical bullets, has anyone ever loaded them backwards to simulate wad-cutters? If so, wht difference if any did it make?
I am tempted to try but would like to know what might happen before I do!

[rodwhaincamo]

I have tried them backwards with two different bullets. One was a .45 cal SWC that often were too large to fit in the chamber (the guy who gave them to me said being .452" they slip into the chambers, and with a gorilla smash they'll expand in the chamber) as since they were flat based I flipped them as I've read of others doing such.

I also bought some 45-70 Gov't plinking bullets that were supposed to be resized, though they weren't. And so, again, I flipped them and shot them.

I didn't see any degradation in accuracy, and my ROA seems to shoot just about everything equally well from what I see. What I did notice were slightly larger perfect holes in the targets!

[DD4lifeusmc]

you don't need to nitrate cigarette paper. It is already nitrated or similar.
A regular cigarette or zig zag will burn out without the nitrating. Not always but it will.
As to the .45 cal swc claimed to be .452 diameter.
Most of our revolver chambers are .446 to .449. Thus naturally a flat base of .450 and larger is going to be difficult to start.
The generally accepted Lee conical .45-200 for BP revolvers is one of them.
It typically casts a base of .450.
That's why I had a custom mould made based on their basic design.
Mine is about .020 shorter, more of a flat point.
The base has been rebated to .446. the two sealing rings are .455 .
And I do offer these for sale. Just PM me.(I think you and I already have)
Many shoot the .454 round ball or the .457. So this is in between.
I feel that the .457 is just too hard to load in our colt and Remingtons,
but is generally fine in the ROA which has slightly larger chamber diameters.
Hopefully next month funds will allow me to order another custom mould based on the above, with slightly smaller bottom ring and a taller rebate base so will sit deeper in chamber to start with and clear some of the smaller loading areas without having to use a dremel to enlarge the area.

[rodwhaincamo]

I used American Spirits papers (100% flax) and often found small pieces of paper left behind in a chamber or 3. I'd pick them out, but then decided to just keep loading to see if it gave me any problems, which it didn't in the 3 cylinders full I tried. But I still wanted no trace of paper. I nitrated but never made them.

These .452" Colt SWC's were for a ROA with .453-.454" chambers. But they didn't drop in every time. Obviously the sizes weren't uniform. But I still didn't like them, and even had one or two back out under recoil. I melted them down…

I liked the 195 SWC's you cast. They worked well in my ROA.

[DD4lifeusmc]

I thought we had talked before.
Glad you liked them. I recently reduced the price a tad also.
The .455 sealing rings should be just about right for the ROA
There is a never ending argument on the 1858 as to .451, .454, .457
In most 1858 the chambers are .446 to .449.
So techincally you could properly use the .451 and for a slightly tighter fit and shave a larger ring the .454, personally I see no need to force a .457 in.
Because these guns are technically .44 cal, then the barrel is going to be .440 or very close. If the barrel was .450 or bigger our ball squeezed and shaved down to the .449 chamber size, would travel down the barrel like a bowling ball in the gutter, no accuracy would be possible. Common sense will tell you that.
If the projectile does NOT engage the rifling to have the spin imparted into it, it would be like shooting a smooth bore musket.
In your ROA with the bigger chambers the 45-195r I cast which has a rebated base of .446 and two sealing rings of .455 would be the equivalent of using the .451 Rb in an 1858 instead of the .454. (.002 vs .004-.008)
It would fit the chamber tight enough to form a pressure fit. But not as tight as the .457RB most ROA's are recommended to use.
I would suggest you slug the barrel and get an overall diameter of the slug, but still the chamber is what needs to be fitted for.
Have fun shooting!

[Chestnut Forge]

Did any of you ever roll paper cartridges for muzzle loading rifles? I just made up one for each of mine. Both T/Cs. A .45 Hawken percussion and a .54 Renegade flinter. I used tea bags since it seams to light easier. Got to go try them out now, but I'm not firing one round and scrubbing guns.