why so serious? Bubba?

[tahunua001]

You don't see anyone griping about AK-47's in ATI stocks, do ya?

actually yes...quite often..that didn't stop me from buying my brother a set of ATI furniture for christmas though

[JHansenAK47]

If it meant turning a so so rifle into a great shooter that I would enjoy. I would sporterize in a heartbeat.
I love military rifles so i've actually restored a few as well. My formally sporterized 1903 is a prime example of that. Though I didn't go all the way back to the original. The c stock was a replacement so glass bedding it was an easy decision.
Another thing I would do is replace crappy barrels. If I had a military configuration M1917 with an original sewer pipe barrel I would rebarrel it and turn it back into a shooter without even a second thought.
On another note I love well done builds on milsurp rifles. Some of these rifles in this thread I would buy in a heartbeat. Another one I recently saw was a nicely done large ring mauser in 25.06 that had a beautiful stock.
If the quality of work was first rate I would get a rifle rebuilt out of a milsurp. I would however find a a good sporterization candidate. I wouldn't take an all matching perfect bore K98 and cut it up. A mismatched russian capture with a bad barrel would be a better candidate.

[krinko]

As far as sporterization by the Garage Gunsmith is concerned:

The number of people who can carve a Schnabel forend < the number of people who believe they can carve a Schnabel forend.

-----krinko

[USMCGrunt]

Personally, I would never alter any mil-surp. Folks talk about a utilitarian rifle and want to modify it to work better for them but I look at it as a chance to relive the history of the men that carried those rifles and what they had to do to make those issue rifles work for them, not the other way around. As far as the poll goes, I checked the "not in a million years" assuming that the rifle was in original condition. I wouldn't even do it to a non-matching complete rifle either. However, if it was a rifle that Bubba already got to first with no way to restore it back to original configuration, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The reason I never did that either is that I don't go around buying bubba's hack jobs or even have any interest in them. Second, the prices they want for their "custom work" is way too high. I won't spend over $20 for any bubba job no matter how well their workmanship is if their history has already been destroyed.

[Bigfatts]

Am I correct, I read that the last enfield is in 45/70?

That's pretty cool.

Well, it used to be .45-70. Gibbs and Navy Arms made them and they are indeed pretty cool. However, I traded this one to my brother because he fell more deeply in love with it than I did. He had it punched out to .45-90. Now it's a beast.

Tahuna, that M95 is one of the few rifles I regret selling. Take down, double set triggers, light, short, exquisite checkering job. *SIGH*

[emcon5]

I do find it amusing that those who have no problem modifying a historical rifle think those left alone are automatically "Safe Queens"

[RevGeo]

This is all relative. Not long ago I saw a Harpers Ferry .54 Musket that had been Bubbafied by some Indian dude about 140 years ago. He cut off the barrel, strapped what was left of the barrel to the stock with a strip of rawhide, stuck a bunch of brass tack in the stock and carved some rune-looking things into it. Did that guy ruin the collector value of that gun or make it a true collector's item?
How do we know that a 98 Mauser cut down and rechambered to something like 8MM-06 and stuck in an old Herter's stock by some deer hunter in 1957 might not turn out to be quite the collector's item some day?
There are plenty of original condition military surplus arms in collections and museums around the world. I don't give a rat's a** about 'collector value'. If dollar signs were the only thing that counted I would have bought gold, not rifles.
During the immediate post-WWII era there were many quite talented gunsmiths around turning Mausers, Springfields and Enfields into beautiful sporting rifles. Do those guns have no value in their own right?
This subject is just plain silly.

[johnwilliamson062]

are we talking about the cracked stock K31 I am re-barreling and sporterizing the stock on...

[doofus47]

I like projects, and if I had a project in mind that I really was gunho for and I had to chop a milsurp to do it, I might. It depends.

For example, I was on an 8mm kick and had several bolt action Mausers. I wanted to make an 8mm semi-auto brush gun from a Hakim to go with them. I did all the measurements, lined up some local welding help, etc. and had no qualms of conscious about cutting the barrel down to 18", and the stock to go with the new config. I had a Hakim, but I first looked for a bubba'd Hakim that already had a whacked stock. I set myself a time limit, if I hadn't found a mucked up Hakim by x-date, I would have just started in on mine.

As it was, I used the money on an anniversary gift and then decided to just get out of the 8mm business altogether, so my stock Hakim passed on to other, safer hands.

For most of my dream projects, a milsurp wouldn't qualify, but for that one it was the only solution, since I didn't have the money to bubba-up a G43 or an FN-49.

[tahoe2]

milsurps, sporterized or not, were made to be shot and shot often.
I have five mausers, three in 8mm - one sporter, and two military and two in 7mm - one sporter and one military. I have several friends that have some also and we all have more than one (they are addictive) we all handload and have little private competitions. I say if it is your gun, do as you wish. I'm still lookin for a swede.

[SIGSHR]

I am of the school that preserving milsurps is preserving history. If you really don't want it, or you want a project rifle, sell of trade the milsurp for something newer, with no historical value.
"Bubba" to my mind conjures up images of butchered rifles, ineptly-and often incorrectly-drilled and tapped, work performed by people who really had no idea of what they were doing. As the saying goes, taking a $200.00 rifle, putting $300.00 of parts and work into, and turning it into a $100.00 rifle, ruining its historical value, and its use as a firearm.
I also question the rational behind using a 60-70 year old milsurp that has gone through who knows what, perhaps made under less than optimum conditions by hastily trained workers, out of often questionable materials in a desparate effort to get weapons into the hands of troops.

[HiBC]

I have built a number of rifles on milsurp actions.The thing is,I do not buy a milsurp rifle and chop it.
Between friends and gunshows,I have bought 98's,p-14's,and one 1903-A3 as bare or barreled actions over the last 35 or 40 years.

Those have made some nice rifles.

It helps that I worked 30 yrs building models'prototypes,and plastic injection molds.I have access to a Bridgeport and a lathe.

Today,if I had a Springfield action,I would restore it.I would do that because the end product I would visualize would be a Mil Springfield.

Mausers,etc,for myself,finding each bit of hardware and paying $7 for a screw,I'm not likely to restore it.Maybe,if Numrich,or Sarco put together restoration kits,like all hardware,maybe wood,to restore an action to a rifle,for a reasonable price,I would.

But I do agree,the time of altering complete milsurp rifles is past.

IMO,the most powerful way to develop appreciation for these rifles is what kraigwy does:He puts on Vintage battle rifle shoots,which help meet requirements forCMP purchases.

I had to miss the last one,look forward to the next.

BTW,on a similar line,my former spouse bought me a Browning 92 .44 Carbine,

Nice,but it just did not fit.

I bought a Douglas barrel blank,a chunk of tight,straight grain walnut,Win Crescent buttplate,some original detail pieces,like the mag tube band and forend cap.

I cut the barrel tapered octagon,rifle length,made a stock that fits me,the only Browning part I used was the receiver.

I used Mark Lee browning solution in a boiling water tank to rust blue it.

I am truly not sorry.It is a far better rifle now.I'm sure someone disapproves.I don't care.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm going to go find some pristine milsurps to buy.

Then you guys can bid on them to make sure they don't get "called home" by Bubba!

Eh, do what you want with it. You're a fool if you cut up a collector grade firearm (for financial reasons) , but as for the rest, do what makes financial sense.

[Crankylove]

If the rifle is still in good enough shape, I have no problem leaving it in stock form.

But, if it is just a run of the mill, used or abused surplus rifle.......I have no reservations about doing some modifications to it. If somebody has issues with me sporterizing, or otherwise modifying my surplus guns............I will take a postal money order, or certified cashiers check and send them my rifle to save from the evils of being a victim of Bubba.

[Art Eatman]

"Eye of the beholder", I guess. To me, this is a collector's gun:

http://www.gunvaluesboard.com/winche...26.html#178654

Few milsurps, IMO, come anywhere near being collectibles. One among millions is just one among millions. Rarity, condition, history of use: These are contributory to perceived value.

[TX Hunter]

I just dont see the sense in sporterizing a classic surplus rifle when you can buy a sporter ready to go cheaper than the overall project would cost. You make a thousand dollar rifle into a three hundred rifle with about eight hundred dollars worth of parts and labor, when you can buy a great rifle for anywhere from three hundred to one thousand dollars thats probably more accurate.

[Bigfatts]

Wow at that Winchester.

[rickyrick]

So, you wouldn't screw a rail or two to that winchester?

[Bigfatts]

I wld never screw a rail onto ANYthing.

[Technosavant]

My thinking:

If it's just not a good collectible (numbers mismatch, stock broken or otherwise damaged, needs new barrel, etc.), I'd have rather little trouble sporterizing it. While the term "collectible value" matters, it isn't just a dollars and cents proposition. An SKS with a busted stock and missing magazine isn't ever going to be a collector's piece. May as well rework it into something shootable.

For those guns that are decent examples (good bores, numbers matching, etc.), I don't do anything to it I can't put back. I have a clamp-on scope mount on a K31, but that's the extent of it. Even if it's never going to be in much demand for collectors, the historical value means something to me.

[uncyboo]

For me, a rifle is a tool, and it has a job to do. If it can't do the job as is, it needs to be adjusted. That being said, I would not make changes to a truly valuable piece... then again, I probably wouldn't buy it to begin with. Right now, I can only afford to have functional utilitarian rifles. There is no room in my safe for queens...

This ^^^^

[cbuck]

if your really worried about it only do it with whats going for cheap right now and buy 2 of them. a set of 91/30 mosins will run you between $180-$220. keep one as is and play with the other one, that way you always have an original as a collectors safe queen if it suddenly becomes highly desirable

if you have a surplus gun that you only have one of, sporterize it if you like but always keep the original stuff so that you can put it back to stock and dont do anything that cant be reversed

[Onward Allusion]

It's a gun and you bought it. Do whatever you want to your heart's content! If one wants to keep it stock mil-surp, G_D Bless. If one wants to paint it purple, um...sure why not! As for retaining value... In what lifetime? Certainly not in the current one. Even if they doubled in value, er how much is it? Quadrupled in value, yeah...again, how much is it? I remember the SKS's coming in at $100 a piece. They're going for what, $300 - $350 today after 20-something years? Heck, don't invest in guns, invest in real investments. Guns are for fun!

[Dino.]

I wouldn't do anything that couldn't be undone.

I would tend to fall into this camp.

[David the Gnome]

People said the same thing about all those surplus 1911's and look how much those are worth today, even for a mix-master.