December 23, 2012, 07:20 PM | #1 |
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Dried Out Primers
Yes I know you are not supposed to do this, it was a precaution for primers that were not stored the best. They were all dry but I put them on top of the hot water heater for the last 3 months (and trust me, with our temperatures they stayed nice and toast)
I test fired them and they were fine this last week. I did not try to save the trays as it would take me years to put them back in. Currently in a glass jar with a the lid on but not sealed. The curiosity question is are you better off poking a hole in the lid and letting air circulate or close tight? I live in Alaska so humidity is not an issue (at least this part!) I am looking for some small desiccant materiel and close tight would then work, but in the boxes they are not sealed. Thought it was an interesting question. Next up is the magnum primers that did have water stains and will see how they do. Local Gunsmith who shoots the long ranges does the same thing and I figure if its good enough for him I am fine. I don't advocate it for anyone, but I am fine for myself |
December 23, 2012, 08:31 PM | #2 |
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Sealed for sure but a glass jar is the last storage container that I would use. I read a story about a guy at the Winchester plant that dropped a glass jar with 10,000 primers in it...and he died. Just a note of caution there.
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December 23, 2012, 08:58 PM | #3 |
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I'd put them in a well-labeled cardboard box. A kitchen size matchbox should hold plenty of primers. Don't worry about desicant, just keep them inside the house. If the environment is good enough for you, it's good enough for primers.
Next time leave them in their original packaging (trays) and dry the whole mess together! Never a glass jar and I wouldn't use plastic either. Nothing that will throw off shards if the primers were to detonate. Don't make a habit of dumping all the primers together for storage. They are separated in the original packaging for a reason.
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December 23, 2012, 09:32 PM | #4 | |
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I would dispose of primers before storing them outside of their original packaging. |
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December 23, 2012, 10:47 PM | #5 |
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I like the approach for the cardboard storage.
Agreed its a hazards, ditto in drying them out though conditions are controlled and if they can survive in a garage in the South West, my temperatures are under 100. I won't throw them out, but I do understand the risk. Definitely worth keeping in mind for anyone handling these. I have put primers back in those trays before, ungh. This was a full 1000 of them, ergh. Don't have the patience. |
December 23, 2012, 11:37 PM | #6 |
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I can fill a primer tray pretty fast from a Dillon primer tube. Just fill the tube as you normally would and then slide it from hole to hole in the primer tray. At least this works well for Winchester and Wolf trays.
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December 23, 2012, 11:47 PM | #7 |
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Personally, unless you plan on using them all in your next loading session I would separate them into smaller groups... 1000 primers loose together is basically a small bomb, complete with shrapnel, (plus add the glass as additional shrapnel). I know you are thinking "I wont drop them", but I "knew" I would never drop my laptop too, stuff happens.... I don't think you realise the danger you have put yourself and anyone else in your house in here....
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December 24, 2012, 12:20 AM | #8 |
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Ditto on what dacur and others have said. What you have there is a contact grenade. If you were to drop it, they might be able to scrape enough of you off the walls to bury!! If you don't care about yourself, consider your family or friends that may drop it.
What makes you think you NEED to dry primers? They are fine in their original packaging in any environment you can tolerate. No consideration as to humidity or temperature. Actually sitting them on top of a heater could cause deterioration of the priming compound, causing them to deteriorate .
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December 24, 2012, 04:43 PM | #9 |
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If I didn't have the original package I wouldn't keep them. I would get rid of them.
To put it simply: the risk is not worth the benefit.
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December 24, 2012, 05:11 PM | #10 |
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The power of a column or jar of primers is something not to be complacent about. I have heard of a Dillion press that was fragged, from the people who saw the pictures, after a reloader tried to prime a small primer 45 ACP brass with a large pistol primer. This is a picture of after a column of Federal primers that went off in a Lock and Load press.
There has to be very good reasons for factory primer packaging. It is clearly there to keep the primers separated and I believe it must be to help prevent flash over, buffer the primers from shocks, and to keep primers from banging into each other. What you have done by pouring loose primers into a jar is very dangerous. In so far as heat, I found data on the web for the older chlorate primers, those primers dud after extended exposure to heat. I have not found similar for lead styphnate but I have no doubt that heat over 140 F for a year or two will cause duding issues.
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December 24, 2012, 05:27 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
Here is the actual propagation suppression that worked as designed: Only 50 some of the 1000 went off. In your glass jar, you wouldn't have been so lucky. |
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December 24, 2012, 06:04 PM | #12 |
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What concerns me is the OP does not appear to be careful in the original storage of the primers; ie, they got wet, and we then read the primers are stored in a glass jar. It's difficult to convince myself that the lack of attention to detail will have a good ending in reloading.
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December 24, 2012, 06:25 PM | #13 |
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RC20,
At Gunsite they warned us as little as one summer in the trunk of a police car that stayed parked outdoors most of the time could kill primers so they didn't fire. The military intentionally heats powder to 140°F to accelerate break-down to study the effect of stabilizers. Heat and shooting supplies are a recipe for encouraging future duds. If you want to dry and store primers, get some freezer bags and a sealer and pack them in there with a desiccant pack. The mil spec ones are a smectite mineral clay like bentonite or montmorillonite and are available in tubs, like these. Also, the Moltan oil absorbent granules sold at AutoZone are pure montmorillonite clay, and you can spread them out on a cookie sheet and heat them in an electric oven at 250°F or higher to drive the water out. You are finished when they stop losing weight. Drop them into a cloth bag and pack them in the sealed bag with the primers.
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December 27, 2012, 01:47 AM | #14 |
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Jepp2 - what happened to those Winchesters?
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December 28, 2012, 01:03 PM | #15 | |
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You then roll this over into reloading practice (vs ignorance) and make assumptions. I am not trying to convince you of my reloading prowess. It would be better to ask what occurred rather than making a sequence of assumptions. I also understand this is not a normal issue and stated that I do not recommend anyone do it. And I deliberately posted not only to get response but lessons for all of us as well and I think some excellent and very illuminating information that would not otherwise come out. I too am curious on what led to the primers going boom in their box? Spontaneous or induced? Agreed the glass jar is a grenade and will remedy that (carefully and agreed on dropping things) Pre primed shells stored in the same area had erratic ignition so I have good reason to think the primers may have been affected. The dry out process was a precaution as I do want to re-use (and do not recommend anyone else do that). Pre primed were not attempted to be dried out. |
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December 28, 2012, 07:29 PM | #16 |
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in the future remember rice is a natural desiccant place wet object directly into it or in the case small objects such as primers put the rice in a shallow pan next to the primers in a sealed box and allow the rice to do it's magic
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December 29, 2012, 08:07 PM | #17 |
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Darn, and I knew that from reading about ships rupturing due to the massive swelling of grains (rice of course included)
Great application. |
December 29, 2012, 08:29 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
All I know is one day I went to get another tray from the brick and something caught my attention. As I lifted trays out, it was obvious that several primers had gone off. I never could determine when, what, how or where it occurred. Packaging I received looked fine No other parties involved, No stray currents. Weren't dropped by me. I did call Winchester and the rep I spoke with basically said "it happens". But it did convince me the original package design will stop the entire brick from going off. |
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December 30, 2012, 12:57 PM | #19 |
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I agree with everyone, that IS a bomb waiting to go off.
Several years ago I purchased a Government surplus mortar can. It’s taller than a 50 cal can. I purchased one that looked new with a good seal. I store all my primers in it. I keep a Remington dehumidifier in the can and in all my safes. The nice thing about it is when the small window turns pink you plug it in to 110 and in 3 to 4 hours it’s like new again. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/599...-30-cubic-feet
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December 30, 2012, 10:56 PM | #20 |
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I store mine in ammo cans. Not perfectly safe, but have done it for years.
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December 31, 2012, 10:35 AM | #21 |
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Yep. Fire departments don't like primers inside metal cans. If the box heats up enough, then all the anti-sympathetic detonation packaging is no longer up to the task because the primers get too sensitive for it to work. Simultaneous ignition in the fire can then throw pieces of metal at the firemen. An ammo can is good for smokeless powder as a buckling lid or popped latch or seam should release the gas before a real explosion occurs. But with primers the gas is generated too fast for that to work reliably.
Get a soft plastic storage container or a bread or cake box, then use a sealable bag and desiccant around the primers inside. You can go bag-inside-bag if you want to and use a heat seal if the primers are going to be there for a long time. If you buy them in cartons or slips of 5000, those are great candidates to go straight into plastic bags with a desiccant before they're even opened. One thing to note with most desiccants is that as they become saturated with water, water escapes by re-evaporation at an increasing rate until they reach equilibrium (capturing and releasing at the same rate) at the saturation temperature, so the relative humidity they allow in the container increases. It doesn't matter if its clay, silica gel, or rice. You want it as bone dry as possible when you put it in the container. Up to about 20% RH, the clay will have the most capacity. Above that, the silica gel has slightly more capacity. I don't know how rice compares. If you are drying primers out, consider a two-step process where you put a fair amount of desiccant in on the first pass to collect the bulk of the water from paper packaging and the content. Then replace it with a smaller maintenance quantity of freshly dried desiccant. The battery-powered humidity meters (built into some thermometers, too) can be kept in a bag with them to monitor RH. Silica gel has often has cobalt chloride as a color indicator, which is convenient, but the clay and rice will swell visibly with saturation, which is another indicator.
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December 31, 2012, 03:22 PM | #22 |
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Fire departments not liking primers in metal cans is one reason I use them. My house and its contents are over insured and being a volunteer fireman, I am well aware that large stashes of primers is a sure fire way to keep the hose draggers from messing up the insurance settlement.
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December 31, 2012, 03:27 PM | #23 |
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Thanks Unclenick, Mine (over 10,000) are going into plastic bags as soon as I quit typing.
I LOVE TFL
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December 31, 2012, 10:23 PM | #24 | |
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You think by keeping the fire department away you are more likely to get a big insurance payout? I would say I wish you luck with that, but I don't. If it works out like that then you'd be contributing to my high insurance premiums. If it doesn't, you're SOL.
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December 31, 2012, 11:51 PM | #25 |
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Yeah, when there is hazmat we stand back and spray water.
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