The Next Step Up

MikeNice81 · November 2, 2010, 11:36 AM

I will readily admit I have very little experience with rifles. I have never been big on hunting. Plus I just felt drawn more to handguns. Something about the size, weight, and bulk of rifles just turned me away. I do own a Ruger 10/22 carbine however.

So, the other night I was thinking, "what is the next step up from a 22lr?" I'm considerring a carbine size rifle for home defense. I don't really want to rely on a handgun when I can use something more effective. I don't want a shotgun because of my floor plan. Slugs tend to pass through humans and buck shot can cause a lot of property damage.

So, what would be the next step up in a carbine? I'm thinking it might be .223. The cost of those rifles are a bit prohibitive at the moment. So, excluding the .223 and .22mag, what would be the next step or two up from a .22LR carbine? Would a pistol caliber carbine be a better choice?

thesheepdog · November 2, 2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

So, what would be the next step up in a carbine? I'm thinking it might be .223. The cost of those rifles are a bit prohibitive at the moment. So, excluding the .223 and .22mag, what would be the next step or two up from a .22LR carbine? Would a pistol caliber carbine be a better choice

If a .223 if prohibitive for your choices, then you're very limited to other options. A pistol caliber will cost more than a .223 (both gun and ammo)

If you want HD, get a tactical shotgun. The mossberg 590, 500 are good choices. If you need a bit more range, load it up with some slugs.

Quote:

Slugs tend to pass through humans and buck shot can cause a lot of property damage.

A rifle round will pass through humans and more.

Here are some options for a budget minded person like you:

Hi-Point Carbine

CMMG Bargain Bin AR-15 in .223

M1 Carbine

Lever Action .44 Mag

MTT TL · November 2, 2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

A pistol caliber will cost more than a .223

There are sub $200 pistol caliber carbines. But why? Why not just get an AR and be done with it?

I would say by the price the next step up would be an SKS. I never seem to find one that shoots accurately past 150 yards, bad luck I imagine.

abelacres · November 2, 2010, 12:14 PM

You've kinda painted yourself in a corner here OP.

*You want a more powerful long gun for HD but you're worried about overpenetration.

*.223 are too expensive, but you haven't given a price range.

*You don't want a shotgun

A pistol caliber carbine may fit what your needs espically if it's the same as one of your handguns.

I will second the SKS, but if you are worried about overpenetration and property damage you will want to try lots of different ammo to find one that meets your criteria.

You may want to check out www.theboxotruth.com it's not scientific research but it is a good place to start. Lots of info about the penetration of many common guns.

Post Script- What .223 are you pricing?

MikeNice81 · November 2, 2010, 12:21 PM

Sheepdog, I haven't seen a .223 carbine under $700 locally. The ammo can be had cheap. The initial investment in the gun is the prohibitive point. If I went with a .223 I would probably be looking at using 55gr V-max bullets since it is in the home. They seem to disipate enrgy rather quickly. My other choice would be 75gr Hornady TAP-FPD hollow points.

MTT, I have actually thought about an SKS or AK-47 using the V-max load. Brass Fetcher did a test on it. The results looked promising. The price is much nicer at about $300 - $400 for a century arms AK.

I'm still trying to feel things out. Thanks for the info guys.

edit:

Able, $300 -$400 is about what I'm looking to spend. I know I can get a Hi-Point pcc with a fore grip in .40S&W for about $300. I can also get an EAA or IO Inc. AK for about $360. An AK "pistol" runs $400 even at a gun store in the next county. I don't think that I want to try wielding that bad boy though.

thesheepdog · November 2, 2010, 01:26 PM

I know for a fact that a base model M4 can be had for $600 new, $400-$500 used.

An SKS is fine, as well as an AK. There are PD/HD rounds for the X39mm round.
I think I would rather have an undefolder AK than an SKS though; there are more advantages.

I would suggest a Saiga AK. Can be had for about $360

Cosmik de Bris · November 2, 2010, 04:21 PM

What about a Mini-14? They must be reasonably cheap where you live.

abelacres · November 2, 2010, 06:30 PM

Ok that opens up the window a bit.

SKS, AK and Hi Point carbines are all good choices.

You may want to look at used hunting rifles (semis, pumps and levers) at some pawn shops and sporting good stores. You can pick up some good deals and have the option of hunting or long distance paper punching at the range.

HD guns don't have to be black and Tacti-cool.

GeauxTide · November 2, 2010, 08:21 PM

Kel-Tec SU-16a

jhansman · November 2, 2010, 09:12 PM

I went from .22LR to .223 Rem. I wanted a center fire cartridge with dependable accuracy that wouldn't beat me up at the range and was affordable to reload. I believe I've succeeded on all counts.

Rampant_Colt · November 2, 2010, 09:19 PM

M1 Carbine loaded with Corbon DPX or R-P hollowpoints
Marlin 1894 in .357 or .44 Magnum
AR-15 platform loaded with 69gr SMK
12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with number 4 buckshot
Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm or .45
SKS stoked with Wolf Military Classic 122gr JHP

A shotgun is the best next option. A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 with 18.5" and 28" barrels covers a wider array of scenarios than most carbines

RaySendero · November 2, 2010, 09:37 PM

lever action 30/30

TXGunNut · November 2, 2010, 09:42 PM

Louisville Slugger

November 2, 2010, 11:36 AM	#1
MikeNice81 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2010 Posts: 579	The Next Step Up I will readily admit I have very little experience with rifles. I have never been big on hunting. Plus I just felt drawn more to handguns. Something about the size, weight, and bulk of rifles just turned me away. I do own a Ruger 10/22 carbine however. So, the other night I was thinking, "what is the next step up from a 22lr?" I'm considerring a carbine size rifle for home defense. I don't really want to rely on a handgun when I can use something more effective. I don't want a shotgun because of my floor plan. Slugs tend to pass through humans and buck shot can cause a lot of property damage. So, what would be the next step up in a carbine? I'm thinking it might be .223. The cost of those rifles are a bit prohibitive at the moment. So, excluding the .223 and .22mag, what would be the next step or two up from a .22LR carbine? Would a pistol caliber carbine be a better choice? __________________ Here's my credo: There are no good guns, There are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone, except bad people. Charlton Heston

November 2, 2010, 12:14 PM	#4
abelacres Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: Jackson County Florida Posts: 207	You've kinda painted yourself in a corner here OP. You want a more powerful long gun for HD but you're worried about overpenetration. .223 are too expensive, but you haven't given a price range. *You don't want a shotgun A pistol caliber carbine may fit what your needs espically if it's the same as one of your handguns. I will second the SKS, but if you are worried about overpenetration and property damage you will want to try lots of different ammo to find one that meets your criteria. You may want to check out www.theboxotruth.com it's not scientific research but it is a good place to start. Lots of info about the penetration of many common guns. Post Script- What .223 are you pricing? __________________ If something seems too good to be true it's best to shoot at it just to be sure

November 2, 2010, 12:21 PM	#5
MikeNice81 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2010 Posts: 579	Sheepdog, I haven't seen a .223 carbine under $700 locally. The ammo can be had cheap. The initial investment in the gun is the prohibitive point. If I went with a .223 I would probably be looking at using 55gr V-max bullets since it is in the home. They seem to disipate enrgy rather quickly. My other choice would be 75gr Hornady TAP-FPD hollow points. MTT, I have actually thought about an SKS or AK-47 using the V-max load. Brass Fetcher did a test on it. The results looked promising. The price is much nicer at about $300 - $400 for a century arms AK. I'm still trying to feel things out. Thanks for the info guys. edit: Able, $300 -$400 is about what I'm looking to spend. I know I can get a Hi-Point pcc with a fore grip in .40S&W for about $300. I can also get an EAA or IO Inc. AK for about $360. An AK "pistol" runs $400 even at a gun store in the next county. I don't think that I want to try wielding that bad boy though. __________________ Here's my credo: There are no good guns, There are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone, except bad people. Charlton Heston Last edited by MikeNice81; November 2, 2010 at 12:30 PM.

November 2, 2010, 01:26 PM	#6
thesheepdog Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2010 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 1,996	I know for a fact that a base model M4 can be had for $600 new, $400-$500 used. An SKS is fine, as well as an AK. There are PD/HD rounds for the X39mm round. I think I would rather have an undefolder AK than an SKS though; there are more advantages. I would suggest a Saiga AK. Can be had for about $360 __________________ Krav Maga/Judo Qualified Rifleman/Marksmanship Instructor/Lic. Medic "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" Romans 8:1

November 2, 2010, 06:30 PM	#8
abelacres Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: Jackson County Florida Posts: 207	Ok that opens up the window a bit. SKS, AK and Hi Point carbines are all good choices. You may want to look at used hunting rifles (semis, pumps and levers) at some pawn shops and sporting good stores. You can pick up some good deals and have the option of hunting or long distance paper punching at the range. HD guns don't have to be black and Tacti-cool. __________________ If something seems too good to be true it's best to shoot at it just to be sure

November 2, 2010, 04:21 PM	#7
Cosmik de Bris Member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 65	What about a Mini-14? They must be reasonably cheap where you live.

November 2, 2010, 08:21 PM	#9
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Kel-Tec SU-16a

November 2, 2010, 09:12 PM	#10
jhansman Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2007 Posts: 680	I went from .22LR to .223 Rem. I wanted a center fire cartridge with dependable accuracy that wouldn't beat me up at the range and was affordable to reload. I believe I've succeeded on all counts. __________________ Blessed is the man who has nothing to say, and cannot be compelled to say it.

November 2, 2010, 09:19 PM	#11
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	M1 Carbine loaded with Corbon DPX or R-P hollowpoints Marlin 1894 in .357 or .44 Magnum AR-15 platform loaded with 69gr SMK 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with number 4 buckshot Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm or .45 SKS stoked with Wolf Military Classic 122gr JHP A shotgun is the best next option. A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 with 18.5" and 28" barrels covers a wider array of scenarios than most carbines __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts

November 2, 2010, 09:37 PM	#12
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	lever action 30/30

November 2, 2010, 09:42 PM	#13
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Louisville Slugger __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.