Loading .357 cases down to .38 +p, good or bad?

[btefft]

Loading .357 cases down to .38 +p, good or bad?

I just bought a Taurus 605 (24 ozs empty, 2" barrel), chambered for .357 Mag. I went to the range and fired 50 rounds of 38 Special and 100 rounds of .357 through it.

The 38s were sweet, but those .357s rocked me pretty good. So, I am thinking about using the .357 cases, but loading rounds to what may be said to be 38 +p or even ++p - just not up to .357 pressure levels.

I do it a lot with my 44 mag cases, (I mean loading them down to 44 Spl +p.)

I've never reloaded .357 and thought I'd toss out my idea and see what you all thought.

Thanks
Hack

[LHB1]

No problem. That is one of the big advantages of handloading; you can load down from max to the load level that suits your preference. I did it for years with .357 Mag and still do for .44 Mag. I have one load with full power loads for hunting and another load at about 1000-1100 fps for target and light field shooting. Just box the different loads separately and label well with accurate loading records to show what the load is. Hint: I use two different color plastic boxes. Red box is for full power loads and Blue/Gray/etc. box is for target or field loads. Works for me.

[WESHOOT2]

Suggest using your 357 cases and 'Cowboy' data.

[Smaug]

Some powders need to be nearly full-up to ignite properly. (such as H110) Don't try to download those. If it is a slow-burning powder and the charge is at the far side of the cartridge, it may not ignite or may have a delay.

I always use magnum primers for light loads in magnum cases.

I'm actually mid way in the process of loading some 38 Special strength loads in 357 cases with HP38. I'm going to try 50 with the minimum recommended 38 Special charge. Those should be absolute pussycats. The other 50 will be the heaviest recommended for 38 Special.

I love this experimenting part of reloading. Makes me feel like a mad scientist.

[joneb]

I have down loaded .357 mag. by starting at the upper end of .38 spl data and worked up the load for accuracy, I found that 148gr BBWC w/ 4.3-4.5gr of Bullseye shoots well in my .357 snub.

[zxcvbob]

It will work just fine, as long as you don't use 296 or H-110 powder. (I recommend Herco)

[rn22723]

It is a great idea, some people will shoot 38's with lead and then to chamber 357's only to their chagrin.....they won't. Because of the lead build up in the cylinder from using 38's.

[UnderDawgAl]

As rn22723 noted, you avoid the lead-ring-build-up problem. As LHB1 noted, the great thing about reloading is that you can build your own loads to suit your tastes and needs.

Within the past couple of months, I have begun reloading .357 Mag brass down to 38 levels, and I love it.

For 148-grain HBWC, I've loaded .357 with Bullseye from 2.8 grains up to 4.4 grains. For Bullseye powder, I'll stick with 3.2 grains.

For 158-grain SWC, I've loaded 4.6-5.0 grains of Bullseye without problems. I'll either stick with the 4.6 grains or even drop it a little and check the results.

Finally, I've just bought a pound of W231 and have loaded a few rounds of 148-gr HBWCs using 3.4 grains. We'll see on Saturday morning how that load fares.

Now that I've collected a few hundred rounds of .357 brass, I don't plan on using any more 38s in my S&W 686.

[tom234]

Why not just load .38 Spl loads in .38 cases ?

[T. O'Heir]

You can load .357 brass to any .38 Special velocity, including LWC target loads(2.5 to 2.8 grains of Bullseye), with no fuss. Been doing it for eons.

[Smaug]

Originally Posted by tom234

Why not just load .38 Spl loads in .38 cases ?

Look up two posts, Tom.

[shu]

The only aspect of 38spl loads in 357mag brass which is a concern for me is the cavernous case capacity. The 38spl case is already huge compared to the small amount of powder, and the 357spl case is even larger.

For that reason I favor full wadcutters - currently, using Oregon Trail lasercast double base wadcutters. Keeps the powder back near the primer where it belongs. Nice accurate loads in 38spl and 357mag cases both.

[under_dawg]

Try some Trailboss powder and Hodgdon's cowboy load data that comes in that free booklet they send out. I use cci 550 because I called and they said they used magnum primers. Trailboss will fill up the cases very well, and makes a clean plinking round with a lead 158 gr rnfp. I think 700-800fps.

[WESHOOT2]

Ensure your bullets consistently exit, or you will learn what an 'all blowed up' gun looks exactly like.

LEAD BULLETS ONLY when loading way down.

[TEDDY]

why not hornady HBWC, I use 700X because it takes less and is much like bullseye. I use HBWC for my S&W 52.it should be great for a 2" snubby.I have a S&W airweight 2''

[Slamfire]

I don't like shooting 38 Spls in my 357's. The darn lead ring that is left in the cylinder is timeconsuming to remove. If I don't remove them, then I have had extraction problems when I use 357's.

Attached are some data points with reduced loads in a 357. The difference between primers might be interesting. These were fired from a 4" barrel.

You will find that Unique will work very well in the 357.

S&W 686-5 4" Barrel 	
				
158 gr Berry's Plated Bullet  8.0 grs HS6 357 cases  CCI Mag Primers 
23-Sep-07	T = 82 °F			
				
Ave Vel =876.9			
Std Dev =29.37			
ES =	88.21			
High =	917.9			
Low =	829.7			
N =	6			
				
158 gr Berry's Plated Bullet  8.5 grs HS6 357 cases  WSP 
23-Sep-07	T = 82 °F			
				
Ave Vel =915.8			
Std Dev =30.41			
ES =	86.91			
High =	974.9			
Low =	888			
N =	6			
				
158 gr Berry's Plated Bullet  6.7 grs Unique 357 cases  WSP 
23-Sep-07	T = 82 °F			
				
Ave Vel =915.8			
Std Dev =30.41			
ES =	86.91			
High =	974.9			
Low =	888			
N =	6			
				
158 gr Berry's Plated Bullet  6.7 grs Unique 357 cases  CCI Magnum primers 
23-Sep-07	T = 82 °F			
				
Ave Vel =971			
Std Dev =32.83			
ES =	90.89			
High =	1000			
Low =	912			
N =	6

[Japle]

Some powders are sensitive to their position in the case. You'll get lower velocity if the powder's up front and higher if it's close to the primer. If you load small amounts of powder, this is more of a problem.

I like Titegroup for light .357 loads, because it isn't sensitive to position.
Accura/West Coast plated 158 gr FP over 4.5 of Titegroup gives me around 900 fps, real good accuracy, comfortable recoil and no wear on the GP100 I shoot.

[tom234]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom234
Why not just load .38 Spl loads in .38 cases ?

Look up two posts, Tom.

I've been shooting .38 specials and .357 in my .357s for over 40 years and never have had a problem....... Perhaps those that do have problems seldom clean their weapons.

[trublu]

A guy at the range was telling me that bullets out of a .357 case will be more accurate than those out of a .38 case all other things being equal. I wonder if this is true or not ?

What about the other way - can .38 cases be used to load to .357 levels (obviously to be fired only out of a .357 gun) ? (I have many more .38 cases than .357) Or is it just too potentially disasterous ?

[Smaug]

trublu - 357 ammo out of a 357 cylinder has more accuracy potential than 38 ammo out of a 357 cylinder because the 38 bullet has a larger leap to get to the forcing cone and into the rifling.

If the gun is a 38, and you're comparing 38 in the 38 gun to 357 in the 357 gun, there's no difference.

You could load up to 357 pressures in a 38 case, but since there's less case capacity for poweder, you'd reach those pressures with less powder, and when you did reach those pressures, you wouldn't have the same velocity potential because of less powder burn time. You'd have to work up to it.

But the key is having a gun that is strong enough and making sure you labeled the ammo for use only in magnum handguns. Also, I'm not sure what the effect is from these heavy loads with the bullet having to jump the bigger distance. It might be harder on the forcing cone than actual magnum ammo.

About the only gun I'd even consider doing this on is a 38 Special Ruger SP-101. (since it won't accept magnum cartridges)

[trublu]

Thanks for that. I was just wondering about using .38 cases but I think I'll only ever load .357 loads into .357 cases to avoid any potential problems.

Yes - that what I was trying to remember - the distance to the forcing cone is greater with a .38 round in a .357 revolver than a .357 round in a .357 revolver. So that would be a reason to only ever use .357 cases in a .357 revolver. Hmm..I might have to do some experiments and see if I can measure a difference.

[WESHOOT2]

MUST be resolved FROM YOUR GUN.

So the answer is: In some guns better accuracy is exhibited with 38 cases; in others the 357 case choice is more accurate.

Test then know.