Pistol shotshells - Anyone make their own?

[FrontSight]

Hi,

The CCI ones are SO expensive, and they perform pretty poorly in regards to cycling the action. I.E. the front part of the aluminum casing cracks open, and you usually have to pull back on the slide after each shot to load the next round.

Anyone know why the heck they are designed this way??

I am thinking of making my own instead, using regular brass cases, the same amount of powder as in a regular 230 grain bullet, and 230 grains of shot, wad, binding material / plastic cup at the front to let it load up the ramp properly, etc.

Does anyone make their own & could offer any advice, or tell me if there is anything about this set up that sounds dangerous? I.E. should I not place & pack the wad down directly on top of the powder?

Thanks!

[rocket12]

Speer makes shotcapsules,they also have loading data http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=313962

[BigJimP]

I haven't loaded too many / and its been many years since I did load them. But I read somewhere recently that Speer is making the capsules in .357 mag and .44 mag. Speer or the boxes should have load data on them.

The shells in .357 mag and .44 mag both worked pretty well.

[BIGR]

It has been a few years but I have loaded some .38 rounds with the shot cups. Speer makes them and I used no. 9 lead shot and packed those shot cups as full as I could get them. They have a plastic plug that seals off the end after you fill them up. They shot real well in a revolver, but I would say that in a semi auto they would be a bear to load for. You mentioned loading them pretty stout. The best I can recall you don't want the loads to be hot. Also when seating the plastic shot cups down in the brass you have to be careful and not break them. You can save a bunch of money loading your own.

[jdscholer]

Yeah, they don't pattern real well with a hot load. And thats whatcha would need to cycle an auto. I've done them in 38/357, and had good results. Speer shot cups. jd

[Adventurer 2]

The Speer Reloading manual covers shotshell capsules. I load them in 38 special cases. I think I paid less than 5 bucks per 50 for the cases. You load whatever shot size you want and leave enough room for the plug. The manual recommends a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter seating plug in order to prevent breaking the capsules. My 38 die came with the wadcutter seating plug. The important thing is to use the amount of powder that is shown in the reloading table because too much will spread the shot too fast. I don't think you are going to find a balance that will cycle a semi-auto and get good shot patterns.

[T. O'Heir]

"...they don't pattern real well with a hot load..." They don't pattern well with any load. Shotshells out of a rifled barrel produce patterns with big holes. The shot string flies in a spiral, sending the shot who knows where.

[jsflagstad]

I have rolled my own shot shells for my 357 mag, quite affordably.

Like you said, I weigh the shot load and start with the minimum listed load for that weight and maybe even lighter to start.

I then sacrifice a case and use it to punch cards/wads out of card board/ cardstock.

Loading, I add the powder charge to a prepped primed case, insert a card/wad, add the shot, place in another card/wad over the top of the shot, and drip wax or hot glue gun over the end of the case/wad to hold it in.

I have done this for years, and it works well. I have killed a few grouse and quite a few squirrels with this loading method...

JSF

[45Marlin carbine]

I have the RCBS die set for makeing .45acp shot-shells that will cycle the .45 action, they do well for close range targets and I have taken birds and small game at 20 ft. uses a .410 shot cup trimmed down to fit.
I've thought about selling the formed brass (the forming die is costly)to shooters that are interested then all they would need will be the loading die set (3 pc but I've wondered if a .45 expander could be subbed for the expander in the set, this would leave just the sizeing die and the seating/crimping die to buy) which isn't too bad expensive.
some fellow .45acp shooters could split the cost and then have a supply of
.45acp shot-shells for emergency use or just fun shooting.

[jmorris]

CCI also sells just the shot capsules. http://www.huntingtons.com/cases_cci.html Just don’t expect to turn your pistol into a short shot gun. For semi autos I’ve found the crimped (like a blank) versions work better than the others. http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=19 has the crimp dies but you would probably have to form your brass from rifle brass (like .308) to find the sweet spot for the OAL.

[jmorris]

some good info here too. http://www.aement.com/articles/45shot.htm

The 45 dies (56552) are here http://www.huntingtons.com/dies_specialorder.html

[45Marlin carbine]

.45 Win Mag cases make better cases than the .308. they don't require cutting to length. seems a little thinner brass and forms easier.
I shoot them in a Marlin Camp .45acp with a good deal of success at 20".

[joneb]

I am thinking of making my own instead, using regular brass cases, the same amount of powder as in a regular 230 grain bullet, and 230 grains of shot, wad, binding material / plastic cup at the front to let it load up the ramp properly, etc.

Well that's the tricky part, depending on the shot size you may only get a 140gr ? payload with .45 acp, you must account for all the space between the shot, and how that relates to the case volume, of course this plastic cup will be a trick I'm curious about that.

[FrontSight]

Thanks guys for all the great info here, will spin it around in my wind for a while and see what I come up with...

[Stick_man]

I used to load the Speer capsules in .38s to carry as "snake shot". They do OK but not very good. I believe these loads were originally developed for use in the T/C Contenders with the wadsplitter (choke) attached to straighten out the rifling twist.

I have shot trap with the .44's and .410's out of the Contenders and it is tough to beat for a challenge. Taken several birds with them and even a squirrel or two. They make for some fun shooting.

As for loading the .45's using powder charges listed for regular bullets, I would be cautious about that. The different finishes (plastic vs copper jackets vs lead) lead to different pressures. Just like you don't want to use regular jacketed loading data for moly coated bullets, I don't think it would be a very good idea to use the regular load data for a plastic encased "bullet" even if the weights were identical. I would STRONGLY recommend sticking to published data for loading the shot capsules.

Also, I have heard that the shot capsule loads are not recommended for use in semi-autos because they do not generate sufficient recoil to cycle the actions. With some of the capsules, the OAL would end up being too long for most semis and even many revolvers.

Have fun and be careful.

[Scorch]

I have a set of the RCBS 45 ACP shotshell forming and loading dies. I use 45 WinMag brass instead of 308 Win brass since it is much thinner and you don't have to trim to length. I cut down 410 shotcups instead of using over-powder wads. It produces OK patterns out to about 15 yds, but there are big holes in it, so I try to keep the range under 10 yds. I have taken several grouse and rabbits with the shotshells out of my 1911.

[WadePatton]

I've threatened to do this--threatening to the wasps and bees and snakes around here. There was great page with pics up a while back. That guy, like I would be doing, was loading light and using card under/over as mentioned above. IIRC he used #11 shot (special order--one bag a lifetime supply) and take-out carton wadding in a 45 Colt with Elmer's glue over wad.

Much more fun than badminton rackets for carpenter bees. And more economical than any prepackaged product-component or otherwise. Eating out--now that's expensive.

I'll report if I do it. And might go hunt down that page.

---Found it. .44 is the caliber-but I do believe anyone who has any business loading can work out the details for other cases. http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm

[30Cal]

I've never tried to make 'em for .45 ACP tho I've had good success making up snake loads in .38, .357, .41 and .44 magnum. I use the standard weight powder charge for target loads and #12 shot...got a 5# bag at a gun show here in Louisville some years back...believe me...it's a lifetime supply!

I take the sized and primed case, and load it with powder..for .38 and .357 I've used Bullseye in 3.3 gr charges and 4.0 gr of 231 as experimental starting points. Then I use a deprimed case as a wad cutter. The wads are made from coffee can lids, the plastic kind and are pushed back out of the case with a cutoff nail of appropriate size.

Tiring of this method, I finally just primed the cases, added the powder charge, then placed them on a flat wooden block. Laying the plastic lid over the top of the case, I lightly tapped the lid with another block of wood allowing each case to cut it's own over powder wad. Pushing it down with a pencil cut off square seats it properly. Yeah...I know..sounds iffy...but works well in practice. You can even just lean on the top block and dispense with the tapping if it makes you feel safer.

I dip each case as prepared above in a dish of #12 shot to fill it, then seat another wad on top using the same technique. The finished case is then run into a seating die to lightly crimp the top wad in place. I've had some of the top wads loosen in my pocket, so I now cement them in place with a drop of crazy glue or Testor's model paint.

Results are what you might expect...groups are sporadic, but adequate for snakes up to 10 or 15 feet. More than that and you lose velocity with the small shot and the pattern's blown to he__ and back. I use aluminum cans for trials...penetration of both sides is what I'm looking for and adjust the powder charge for same.
HTH's Rodfac

[Edward429451]

I too, have the RCBS dies for making my own 45acp SS's from cut down .308 brass with 410 wads, and have loaded lots of the 44 cups and a few 38's here n there. The 44 cups are the best given the payload but the 45acp ones work pretty good out to ~20 ft. I never could get them to be 100% reliable, maybe 60-70%. I also could never get the clear plastic cover to crimp in nice so took to capping them with a single 00 Buck which makes them more durable and more rabbit worthy! I've got a few critters with em.

The 44 mag shotcups are by far the funest because they are 100% reliable and also very versatile to load. I found that two 95gr 380 bullets (.355) fit
nicely in the cup base to base and the plug sits fine. These are fun! they strike two holes within an inch at ~25 ft at a chrony'd 1000 something fps! I have yet to tag Bugs with one of these but I surely look forward to it!

The powder charges for such loads are pretty much carved in stone in the manuals & magazines. I wouldn't use data for a solid slug with these, too much risk.

[keys85]

Total waste of time for any pistol caliber with a case capacity less than a .44 Magnum. I've made .40 S&W shot cartridges, but they are only effective for about 5 feet, and don't throw enough volume of shot to do anything but scare away whatever pest you're shooting at. This includes stationary soda cans.

If you've made wax bullets before...My experiments have shown that 9 BBs fit nicely into a .40S&W case, encapsulated with wax over a 2.5 grn charge of HS-6 does wonders. 3 grn charge works even better but then it starts making lots of noise. The wax fires out much like a projectile (although probably not stable) and the BB's give it a lot of mass, and when it hits an object the wax disintegrates but the momentum of the shot carries through and the wad expands. Makes a real nasty mess of such soda cans.

[sargenv]

Hmm.. shot impregnated wax.. now that's something I hadn't thought of.. and now something I need try. I just so happen to have some 10's and 12's (Ballistic products has 5# jars on sale online) in addition to the 7.5's and 9's. I may have to play with that in my 610.. just for fun

[keys85]

It is a royal PITA however to do this...because you're using a small charge. With regular wax bullets, you can just push a primed case into a block of wax. You can't really push a charged case through wax cuz it'll spill all over and make a mess. I figured out a way to do it using hot wax...but you have to use a wad of some sort (I just used more wax) over the charge to prevent a dud.

[dakotashooter2]

I'm assumin we are taking 45 ACP. Most commercial shot loads indicate they will not function in a semi auto. I'm wondering if Edwards dies are the type that make a 6 or 8 point crimp in the brass(similar to a blank cartridge. I belive they tried that in WWII. I have heard where a longer case was used and bottlelnecked to fit the chamber. I'm thinking one would have to insert the powder and overshot card/wad before bottle necking. A few grains of powder,an over powder wad, shot then an overshot wad and a crimp or glued in place. These supposedly these function fine in a semi auto. You don't want a high velocity load. It will blow the pattern.

I load shotshells for mt 41 mag. About 3-5 gr of red dot, a 410 shot cup cut of at the neck of the case, fill with #9 shot, cap with a 35 cal gas check (inside the shot cup petals) and crimp. It actually works pretty good out to 15-20 feet with a slight hole in the middle of the pattern that I attribute to the GC. I am going to try just use the base of the shot cup as a gas seal, fill with shot and top with a heavy card to see if it is any better.

[WadePatton]

I'm not talking ACP. I leave the 1911 loaded with ashtrays and ball. The 45 Colt is where I think you'll have the most fun with home-rolled shot shells. I intend to do it just as the article I linked above--small powder charge, lots of lead, over and under styro wads with glue. I see no point in sizing the case or crimping or using gas checks--not with 15-20' maximum range goals. Varmints further than that will get 17HMR treatment.