scored a German Luger - Page 3

Que · April 29, 2015, 05:26 PM

My advice is to start with 115 gr. FMJ. If that works stop right there. If not then go to 124 gr. FMJ. The Luger (once it was 9mm Luger) was designed around 124 gr. but that round then isn't so much what we have today. Find what works and you are good to go.

Deaf Smith · April 29, 2015, 09:29 PM

Quote:

I was really glad its an imperial Luger WWI while I would have taken it no matter what I'm glad its not a Nazi Luger

I agree Gary. I have an Italian 1934 military pistol, no Nazi marks and a RAAF .38 S&W military WW2 gun. I won't buy a Nazi gun cause no telling how many innocent people were murdered with it.

And since it does not have a Nazi eagle, it must have been brought back after WW1!

Good enough.

Now you can become a THRUSH agent!

Deaf

James K · April 30, 2015, 10:54 AM

I am not that purist. I don't go in for Nazi emblems or literature, but guns are amoral; they are "things" and do not, cannot, have any sense of right or wrong.

But refusing to own a "Nazi" gun presents some problems. Any gun made in Europe prior to 1945 could have had a Nazi owner. Those drillings and shotguns taken from German homes by American soldiers were most likely owned by Nazis or Germans who supported the party. And they might not be German guns; in times of peace, German sportsmen bought guns made in England, Spain, the U.S., and other countries. They might not have any swastika mark, but the owner might have been "sieg heiling" at the top of his lungs.

Besides German guns, the German army and Nazi party organizations used captured weapons, even giving an official German designation to the M1911A1 pistol, and making .303 ammunition for captured SMLE's. Such guns were "repatriated" after the war, so that Colt .45 could have been in Nazi hands.

It is very likely that .32 caliber pocket pistols made in Germany in the war years were used by some arm of the German government or the Nazi party. And even gun clubs were controlled by the "Kraft durch Freude" organization and limited to members of the Nazi party, so a "bringback" Walther Olympic had probably been in Nazi hands.

As for Imperial or Weimar era Lugers, they didn't vanish in 1933. They were issued to Nazi party groups, like the SS, as well as to police and, of course, the Wehrmacht. It is pretty safe to assume that any Luger in Germany during the Nazi era was used by the German military, police or Nazi party organizations, no matter what the markings on it or when it was made.

Whether to eschew "Nazi" guns is a personal choice, but I don't see how anyone could collect any representative historical selection of guns from before 1945 and not have any gun that might have been used by a Nazi.

Jim

Deaf Smith · April 30, 2015, 01:54 PM

Yes Jim, but the Nazis usually stamped acceptance marks on their weapons they used or allowed their troops to use.

Hence you see Astra 600s with Nazi eagles, or Belgium made P-35s with Nazi eagles, or Ruby .32s even.

But we do know for sure if they have their acceptance stamps, they most certainly did use them.

For me it's kind of like the crate the Ark of the Covenant was in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. God didn't like the Nazi emblems and thus burned them off the crate.... and neither do I want a weapon, or cloths, or swords, or knives, etc.. that were used by them.

I'll take an Italian weapon cause except for the Black Shirts, most Italians were pretty humane and really didn't want that war.

Deaf

GaryED50 · April 30, 2015, 07:01 PM

Guys look you have taken one thing I said and made it more then it was. I was not saying the gun was evil if the gun was a Nazi era weapon I was just saying I'd prefer not to have anything with the markings of a murderous regime emblazoned on it

Gary

PCP-AirGunTanks · April 30, 2015, 07:10 PM

Congratulations!!

I've always loved Lugers (and most other firearms I guess). For some reason, I always liked DWM (Just because I liked saying the name as a kid LOL). My dream has always been to own a carbine Luger. I like the artillery, but the longer barrel and stock look so sweet on a Luger.

I picked up an old Luger very cheap ($300) at a local gun shop. It was re-blued, and one item had a mis-matching serial number, but I figured for $300 I could own a shooter! It shoots very accurately. I might have to take that pistol to the range soon.

dakota1911 · April 30, 2015, 07:12 PM

Nice find on a piece of history. Wonder what it would say if it could talk?

**44 AMP** · May 1, 2015, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Wonder what it would say if it could talk?

Guten Tag!

GaryED50 · May 1, 2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Nice find on a piece of history. Wonder what it would say if it could talk?

I've thought that many times what it could tell me of the last 101 years.

Gary

Pilot · May 2, 2015, 06:37 AM

Both my 1941 Mauser P-08 Luger, and K98k Mauser rifle have Nazi proof marks. I have no problem with them, and think it adds to the history of the firearms. Symbols can't harm, only people can. I will not give symbols that kind of power over me.

**44 AMP** · May 2, 2015, 10:32 AM

I doubt there is any symbol in the history of mankind that hasn't been hated, reviled, despised, or feared by someone, at some time. And that includes our own.

If you don't want something marked with a certain symbol, don't get one. Your choice, and your right to make it.

Just don't bury the history along with the symbol. ALL the history.

To paraphrase the famous quote,

"if you forget your past screw-ups, you will make them again!"

James K · May 2, 2015, 09:59 PM

It is sort of interesting that , while many of the countries that acquired ex-German weapons after WWII obliterated the swastika marks. At least on the ones I have seen, the country that didn't bother was Israel. I guess they figured that destroying the symbol of a past enemy was less important than refurbishing guns to defend themselves from even older enemies.

Jim

Jim Watson · May 3, 2015, 06:19 AM

I look at such things as a trophy of a defeated enemy.

If you are a wacko glorifying a dictatorship, you are not my kind of person.

Quentin2 · May 3, 2015, 07:27 PM

I love my 1941 P08 Luger even with its Nazi markings. As has been said, it's a piece of history that should be preserved in its original configuration. Preserving Nazi markings does not mean Luger lovers are Nazis they just want authentic specimens to collect, not butchered/neutered ones.

Now if a modern gun was manufactured today with Nazi markings that's an entirely different matter - you'd have to question the people behind its design and manufacture. And those who bought it.

GaryED50 · May 4, 2015, 05:55 PM

Hey

I was sitting oiling my Luger and found a number at the base of the barrel

turns out its a bore measurement indicating its a 9mm Luger

Gary

James K · May 4, 2015, 10:00 PM

Yes, it is the actual bore measurement, taken with a plug gauge. 8.82mm is .347". 9mm, or .354", is the groove diameter. Since each barrel was individually measured, the marking can vary - 8.80, 8.81, 8.82 are the most common.

Jim

Jim Watson · May 5, 2015, 10:14 AM

Most German guns have the bore diameter indicated. You just have to know the difference between bore and groove diameter, which seems difficult on the Internet.
Easy when like this one, a real measurement in mm, but some older sporting arms have it in gauge terms, even for rifles.

James K · May 5, 2015, 12:06 PM

IIRC, military weapons always (at least in the modern era) used the metric designation, but civilian weapons used the gauge as part of the proof marking. I am not sure when that was changed for rifled barrels but I believe it was before WWI.

Incidentally, that marking on a Luger was put on in the barrel shop. Barrels were made separately and then sent for assembly. Contrary to what has often been written, the barrels were finished, including the extractor cut, before assembly. The barrels were not removed for finish work once assembled.

Jim

+1k ammo · May 8, 2015, 09:24 AM

Very nice. Looks better than mine and has matching numbers. Mine only has some matching so good find.

I would shoot with ammo in the lower velocity - 124g someone said original specs - as it is a bit snappy to shoot. I just bring it out once a year or so to run a few through it. It is so different from present day designs.

Sorry having trouble with picture too big?

April 30, 2015, 01:54 PM	#54
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Yes Jim, but the Nazis usually stamped acceptance marks on their weapons they used or allowed their troops to use. Hence you see Astra 600s with Nazi eagles, or Belgium made P-35s with Nazi eagles, or Ruby .32s even. But we do know for sure if they have their acceptance stamps, they most certainly did use them. For me it's kind of like the crate the Ark of the Covenant was in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. God didn't like the Nazi emblems and thus burned them off the crate.... and neither do I want a weapon, or cloths, or swords, or knives, etc.. that were used by them. I'll take an Italian weapon cause except for the Black Shirts, most Italians were pretty humane and really didn't want that war. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

April 30, 2015, 07:10 PM	#56
PCP-AirGunTanks Junior Member Join Date: February 20, 2015 Posts: 8	SWEEET FIND!!!!! Congratulations!! I've always loved Lugers (and most other firearms I guess). For some reason, I always liked DWM (Just because I liked saying the name as a kid LOL). My dream has always been to own a carbine Luger. I like the artillery, but the longer barrel and stock look so sweet on a Luger. I picked up an old Luger very cheap ($300) at a local gun shop. It was re-blued, and one item had a mis-matching serial number, but I figured for $300 I could own a shooter! It shoots very accurately. I might have to take that pistol to the range soon. __________________ Joe B <><

May 2, 2015, 06:37 AM	#60
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	Both my 1941 Mauser P-08 Luger, and K98k Mauser rifle have Nazi proof marks. I have no problem with them, and think it adds to the history of the firearms. Symbols can't harm, only people can. I will not give symbols that kind of power over me. __________________ Pilot

May 2, 2015, 10:32 AM	#61
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	I doubt there is any symbol in the history of mankind that hasn't been hated, reviled, despised, or feared by someone, at some time. And that includes our own. If you don't want something marked with a certain symbol, don't get one. Your choice, and your right to make it. Just don't bury the history along with the symbol. ALL the history. To paraphrase the famous quote, "if you forget your past screw-ups, you will make them again!" __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 4, 2015, 05:55 PM	#65
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	Hey I was sitting oiling my Luger and found a number at the base of the barrel turns out its a bore measurement indicating its a 9mm Luger Gary Last edited by GaryED50; May 4, 2015 at 08:14 PM.

April 29, 2015, 05:26 PM	#51
Que Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 912	My advice is to start with 115 gr. FMJ. If that works stop right there. If not then go to 124 gr. FMJ. The Luger (once it was 9mm Luger) was designed around 124 gr. but that round then isn't so much what we have today. Find what works and you are good to go.

April 30, 2015, 10:54 AM	#53
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not that purist. I don't go in for Nazi emblems or literature, but guns are amoral; they are "things" and do not, cannot, have any sense of right or wrong. But refusing to own a "Nazi" gun presents some problems. Any gun made in Europe prior to 1945 could have had a Nazi owner. Those drillings and shotguns taken from German homes by American soldiers were most likely owned by Nazis or Germans who supported the party. And they might not be German guns; in times of peace, German sportsmen bought guns made in England, Spain, the U.S., and other countries. They might not have any swastika mark, but the owner might have been "sieg heiling" at the top of his lungs. Besides German guns, the German army and Nazi party organizations used captured weapons, even giving an official German designation to the M1911A1 pistol, and making .303 ammunition for captured SMLE's. Such guns were "repatriated" after the war, so that Colt .45 could have been in Nazi hands. It is very likely that .32 caliber pocket pistols made in Germany in the war years were used by some arm of the German government or the Nazi party. And even gun clubs were controlled by the "Kraft durch Freude" organization and limited to members of the Nazi party, so a "bringback" Walther Olympic had probably been in Nazi hands. As for Imperial or Weimar era Lugers, they didn't vanish in 1933. They were issued to Nazi party groups, like the SS, as well as to police and, of course, the Wehrmacht. It is pretty safe to assume that any Luger in Germany during the Nazi era was used by the German military, police or Nazi party organizations, no matter what the markings on it or when it was made. Whether to eschew "Nazi" guns is a personal choice, but I don't see how anyone could collect any representative historical selection of guns from before 1945 and not have any gun that might have been used by a Nazi. Jim

April 30, 2015, 07:01 PM	#55
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	Guys look you have taken one thing I said and made it more then it was. I was not saying the gun was evil if the gun was a Nazi era weapon I was just saying I'd prefer not to have anything with the markings of a murderous regime emblazoned on it Gary

April 30, 2015, 07:12 PM	#57
dakota1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: The Great American Desert Posts: 501	Nice find on a piece of history. Wonder what it would say if it could talk?

May 2, 2015, 09:59 PM	#62
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is sort of interesting that , while many of the countries that acquired ex-German weapons after WWII obliterated the swastika marks. At least on the ones I have seen, the country that didn't bother was Israel. I guess they figured that destroying the symbol of a past enemy was less important than refurbishing guns to defend themselves from even older enemies. Jim

May 3, 2015, 06:19 AM	#63
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	I look at such things as a trophy of a defeated enemy. If you are a wacko glorifying a dictatorship, you are not my kind of person.

May 3, 2015, 07:27 PM	#64
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	I love my 1941 P08 Luger even with its Nazi markings. As has been said, it's a piece of history that should be preserved in its original configuration. Preserving Nazi markings does not mean Luger lovers are Nazis they just want authentic specimens to collect, not butchered/neutered ones. Now if a modern gun was manufactured today with Nazi markings that's an entirely different matter - you'd have to question the people behind its design and manufacture. And those who bought it.

May 4, 2015, 10:00 PM	#66
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yes, it is the actual bore measurement, taken with a plug gauge. 8.82mm is .347". 9mm, or .354", is the groove diameter. Since each barrel was individually measured, the marking can vary - 8.80, 8.81, 8.82 are the most common. Jim

May 5, 2015, 10:14 AM	#67
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Most German guns have the bore diameter indicated. You just have to know the difference between bore and groove diameter, which seems difficult on the Internet. Easy when like this one, a real measurement in mm, but some older sporting arms have it in gauge terms, even for rifles.

May 5, 2015, 12:06 PM	#68
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, military weapons always (at least in the modern era) used the metric designation, but civilian weapons used the gauge as part of the proof marking. I am not sure when that was changed for rifled barrels but I believe it was before WWI. Incidentally, that marking on a Luger was put on in the barrel shop. Barrels were made separately and then sent for assembly. Contrary to what has often been written, the barrels were finished, including the extractor cut, before assembly. The barrels were not removed for finish work once assembled. Jim Last edited by James K; May 5, 2015 at 12:12 PM.

May 8, 2015, 09:24 AM	#69
+1k ammo Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 235	Very nice. Looks better than mine and has matching numbers. Mine only has some matching so good find. I would shoot with ammo in the lower velocity - 124g someone said original specs - as it is a bit snappy to shoot. I just bring it out once a year or so to run a few through it. It is so different from present day designs. Sorry having trouble with picture too big?