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August 3, 2013, 07:22 PM | #1 |
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Machining an 80% Lower (HELP)
Alright so I am looking into purchasing an 80% lower and have no machining experience and am looking for someone to machine it for me or at least do it with me so I can complete it. Does anyone have experience doing it in the new england area and would be willing to do this for me? I will pay to ship and pay for you to do it and then go pick it up. Please please please I need help!!
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August 3, 2013, 07:31 PM | #2 |
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I think you might run into some legal issues if you pay someone to mill it for you. Especially if they don't have a license to manufacture firearms. Once the receiver is milled then it is a firearm.
The point to 80% lowers is that the hobbyist finishes them in their own workshop to avoid having to do the transfer paperwork. If you send it off to be finished it will have to be serial numbered and transfer paper work done. Just buy a stripped lower and do the paperwork it will be cheaper in the long run.
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August 3, 2013, 07:36 PM | #3 |
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I live in the communist state of connecticut... I just was wondering if someone would even walk me through it just so I could do it.
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August 3, 2013, 07:38 PM | #4 |
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Yep. Completing that lower is manufacturing a firearm. That is legal, with no paperwork required, under federal law (as long as the result is not a machinegun or other NFA firearm) but with some states now banning "assault rifles" it might be illegal under state or local law.
Under federal law, note that if you manufacture a firearm for your own use, you must do all the work; you can't hire a gunsmith or a machinist to help you or to do it for you unless he has a manufacturer's FFL. I have known several folks who bought those 80% receivers, both 1911 pistol frames and AR lowers, and only one was able to turn out a usable 1911 frame; the others either gave up or ruined the frame, or both. Jim |
August 3, 2013, 07:41 PM | #5 |
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Yeah I have heard it is not easy and I live in CT so I don't even think a licensed FFL with a mill would do that
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August 3, 2013, 08:26 PM | #6 |
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If you build a firearm on an 80% receiver, can you ever legally sell it?
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August 3, 2013, 10:56 PM | #7 |
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No you can't sell an completed 80% lower unless you have a manufacturers FFL. I'm not even sure if you can pass them on as an inheritance.
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August 5, 2013, 10:38 AM | #8 |
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Taylor, I am not interested in building one, but since you have knowledge on this subject I am picking your brain for a minute. If you have one, is it your burden to prove you built it or Law Enforcement burden to prove you did not build it.
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August 5, 2013, 03:17 PM | #9 | |
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Reynolds, it is perfectly legal to build yourself a firearm as long as it doesn't fall into the SBR or Fullauto catagory. So why would the question of who built it ever come up? However, I do believe the burden of proof would lie with law enforcement to prove that you didn't build it.
Ares Armor is one of the suppliesr of 80% lowers and I took this from their FAQ page. Quote:
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August 5, 2013, 08:25 PM | #10 |
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It is not illegal to make a Title I firearm for your own use. You can even make an NFA (Title II) firearm (other than a machinegun) for your own use, if you pay the tax and get approval.
It is illegal to make a firearm for sale of distribution unless you have a manufacturer's license. But it is NOT illegal to sell a firearm you made for your own use as long as you didn't make it with the intent of selling it. How would BATFE show your intent? I am not going to get into all the "scenarios" but it is usually pretty easy. Jim |
August 7, 2013, 04:57 PM | #11 |
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What if a machine shop set up a CNC mill to complete a 80% lower and rented you the machine and let you be the one to push the buttons and do what it took to complete it......kind of like those key cutting booth kiosks or those dog tag engraver machines....you put your 80% lower in push a button and out comes your completed lower....and for the time being you actually temporally own the machine until you sell it back to them so to speak. Would that be legal?
If it would that would be a hell of a business opportunity anyone want to invest with me.....lol
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August 8, 2013, 01:38 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
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August 8, 2013, 02:55 PM | #13 | |
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August 8, 2013, 02:59 PM | #14 |
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This has been discussed in another thread.
There is at least speculation, if not fact, that the ATF would consider the programming of the CNC machine to be part of the work.
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August 8, 2013, 04:18 PM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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August 8, 2013, 04:50 PM | #16 |
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80% AR Receiver = $79.99
Finished 7075 T6 AR Receiver = $89.99 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=357093488 There ain't any money in figuring out a way to rent machines to finish off 80% receivers. Don't forget, they still have to be coated after machining. Lower receivers are once again cheap as all get out....and probably getting cheaper. |
August 8, 2013, 08:02 PM | #17 | |
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August 9, 2013, 12:30 AM | #18 |
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BTW, the whole "80%" thing is a nonsense term, just like "assault weapon" that we made up to describe a product the ATF has ruled "not a firearm." Same as they would rule a soup can. That ruling was based on a certain amount of time, difficulty, and expense, and if a turn key CNC setup* comes along to greatly ease the process, the ATF will rule more restrictively. 20% or whatever percentage has nothing to do with it; it's at their discretion that the unfinished lowers are available without FFL
Since the ATF gets to 'write' their enforcement determinations, we have little to gain and much to lose if we do stuff to push the boundaries and blur their definitions. This isn't like law where precedent rules the day; any new director can order or be ordered to change their opinions. Rarely towards less restriction, or course (but sometimes) *people always forget the enormous amount of prep work involved, which for something simple like finishing a lower, is really a waste of money and machine time since a manual mill is just about as fast, and much easier for a newb to run than a CNC (yes, you still have to run them) TCB
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