May 19, 2011, 10:48 PM | #201 | ||
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Brent |
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May 19, 2011, 11:24 PM | #202 |
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Yup, zactlicly.
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May 20, 2011, 03:16 PM | #203 | ||
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I just finished reading "Project Gunrunner - A Cartel Focused Strategy." Interesting read, but not as damning as I thought it would be. Here are some of the quotes that I find most telling:
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Reading between the lines: "We can use this to get more funding." Quote:
Again, reading between the lines: "We're going to let guns walk." Also, someone may have posted this, and I may have missed it, but here's Senator Grassley's 16 May 2011 letter to Eric Holder: http://grassley.senate.gov/judiciary...ollow-Up-2.pdf Edited to add: Darn it. I tried to upload Grassley's letter, but apparently it's too big. |
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May 20, 2011, 04:07 PM | #204 | ||
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According to this CBS News article, Darren Gill was the lead ATF official in Mexico and I am presuming the "MCO" whose approval would be necessary; but he says he not only said no weapons were to enter Mexico without his approval (email dated Jan 2010), he also claims his first knowledge of Fast and Furious was in early 2010 when he tried to trace firearms recovered by Mexican officials and found he did not have access. Gill also stated he was told by his supervisor that "the operation was approved even higher than ATF Director Kenneth Melson." Gill also mentions that DoJ's Lanny Breuer visited Mexico and generally referenced a big trafficking case. So it looks like the suspect in our game of clue is: 1) In a position of higher authority than Acting Director of the ATF, Kenneth Melson 2) Able to declare that MCO cannot have access to things that are supposed to be under the direct supervision of MCO based on this Cartel Strategy document (although it appears that this portion of the report directing Bureau and MCO advance approval was written long after Fast and Furious was already underway and MCO had already figured out something was up). Here is another good quote from Page 19 of the Cartel Strategy PDF: Quote:
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May 20, 2011, 04:23 PM | #205 | |
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Bartholomew,
Yeah, I had actually started typing in a paragraph preceding the one you've quoted about "[mis]identifying military ordnance," but I think that it refers to explosives, at least in large part. Also, note that: Quote:
This tells me that somebody already suspected that FFLs weren't the real problem. I'm also bothered by the "gun shows" reference. Gun shows are nothing more than a collection of FFLs and private individuals, buying and selling. It's not like the gun show itself has anything for sale. |
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May 20, 2011, 08:27 PM | #206 | |
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Whose foreign policy is this again? |
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May 20, 2011, 09:17 PM | #207 | |
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Brent |
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May 20, 2011, 10:25 PM | #208 | |
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Guns were not allowed to walk into Mexico until after Obama took office. |
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May 23, 2011, 01:34 PM | #209 | ||
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As David Codrea has noted Fox News jumps in with a HUGE accusation... Source
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That seems huge! On a smaller, unrelated note, the Wall Street Journal gave some cursory coverage to the Fast and Furious program in an article that is otherwise more favorable to the ATF - however, it did have this interesting tidbit: Quote:
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May 23, 2011, 01:45 PM | #210 | ||
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And the hits just keep on coming! |
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May 23, 2011, 03:22 PM | #211 |
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I am not the sharpest stick in the bunch but this gun trafficking plan has stupid written all over it.
How could you let weapons like that into Mexico knowing you can't stop them from being used and that you will lose track of them. It has beeen proven time and time again that the United States nor any of its law enfocment agencies have any powers south of the border. I guess we should be thankful that there are plenty of good agents in federal law enforcment that stood against this and have even blown the whistle on it.
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May 26, 2011, 12:02 PM | #212 |
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Senator Grassley (who sits on the Judiciary committee) is now threatening to block all nominations from the current administration until they're more forthcoming with information.
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May 29, 2011, 05:10 AM | #213 | |
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That might backfire on Grassley, but I found this part more interesting:
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May 29, 2011, 10:20 PM | #214 |
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What is your definition of Military equivalent firearms? I dont see Wasser 10's as an equivalent to any US Weapon. Since weapons in the US arsenal are either full auto, or semi auto. I suppose you could say they have one trait in common, and that would be they the semi automatic configuration.
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May 29, 2011, 11:59 PM | #215 |
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There are many lessons here, the first one is that ATF / BATF / BATFE really is not and never has been on par with the FBI, which leads me to ask, "why create a separate law enforcement agency for 3 special categories of commodities?" The FBI is unable to investigate crimes involving tobacco? For some reason, as good as the FBI is at so many other things, they don't know how to handle crimes involving alcohol? We need a special bureau to handle crimes related to firearms? I would think that the BATFE's continued incompetence is the strongest argument for the dissolution of it and turning over those responsibilities to the FBI.
It would be the equivalent of going to your local police agency to report that your car got stolen and they tell you "Sorry - this is the police agency of kerosene, potatoes and power tools. If your crime doesn't involve those three specific categories - we can't help you." I'm saying the BATFE is not needed. I know that any organization has “politics”. Any police officer will tell you about “politics” in his or her department. And I imagine the larger the law enforcement organization – the more prevalent politics are. But this is case where a law enforcement agency got so sidetracked by a political agenda, that they strayed from the very mission – their core mission. Individuals in BATFE sold out their agency – agreed to employ the agency in plan to support a political agenda to erode the second amendment rights of citizens of the United States. From reading the quotes attributed to some of the agents, for those who objected, it really wasn’t about second amendment rights versus gun control – they were concerned that the BATFE had strayed from it’s mission and that the Gun Runner operation was putting lethal weapons in the hands of criminals, and their fear that those weapons would be used to kill federal agents. This is what happens when a law enforcement agency fails to stay neutral and actively tries to be part of influencing legislation. Really horrible. Besides proving yet again that BATFE is incompetent, they’ve proved that they are not worthy of the public’ trust. |
June 1, 2011, 05:19 PM | #216 | |
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June 1, 2011, 05:58 PM | #217 |
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I just finished reading a column on this in the latest American Rifleman. The column brought up something that I hadn't even thought about: How is it that BATFE thinks that international gunrunnning is even within their jurisdiction? Isn't that the job of the Border Patrol?
Edited to add: Given that I'm an attorney, it's a little embarrassing that I didn't even think about jurisdiction.
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June 1, 2011, 06:15 PM | #218 | |
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Many of you all have probably read about two Iraqui refugees being arrested on terrorism related charges in Bowling Green, Ky. Their activities included plans on shipping sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. to Iraq. Thei FBI was teh primary investigating authority. A small portion of that story, relevant to this thread, reads:
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It appears this is the proper way to investigate and break an international gun running scheme. First, it's the FBI and not the ATF. Second, they made the weapons inoperable before turning them over to the bad guys. You have to wonder where the ATF was when they passed out the law enforcement smarts. |
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June 2, 2011, 07:05 PM | #219 |
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June 4, 2011, 10:15 AM | #220 | |
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This was a pleasent thing to wake up with! From an NRA-ILA alert:
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June 4, 2011, 03:49 PM | #221 |
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Thanks Al, for keeping us posted on the relevant news. Hopefully some officials will be going to jail for their direction of this "operation", and that it happens this year and not after another election.
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June 5, 2011, 04:52 PM | #222 |
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I could be wrong, but it looks like the ATF (BATFE), once again, has stepped on its' you know what. Of course, I could be wrong here, and perhaps the world is, after all, flat.
Seems as if a whole lot depends on how easily or not congressional inquiries are bought off by Obama et al, or stonewalled. Who knows. |
June 5, 2011, 05:47 PM | #223 | |
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Issa said today on FOX news that subpoenas and hearings are on schedule for this summer.
Implying that some want to talk but politically need the subpoenas to not appear too anxious. http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...subpoenas.html
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June 5, 2011, 10:35 PM | #224 |
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Amazing thread.
Bookmarked all the links and now I have some reading to do. Thanks to all of you for putting this info together. --Wag--
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June 6, 2011, 02:26 PM | #225 | |
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I suppose it was inevitable for a journalist to apply Occam's Razor and strip the whole affair down, but I hadn't read it yet.
Meaning that if you want crime stats in Mexico from your gunrunning, what you need is bodies to prove your point. Article from last month: http://www.examiner.com/conservative...teria-and-kill Forgot to mention about the Issa interview yesterday, he was very quick to point out when questioned...that altho President Obama has clearly stated that "he and Holder didn't authorize the activities"....he has yet to say he and Holder didn't know about it.
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