Coyote Ethics?

[riverwalker76]

I don't hunt or kill Coyote, but I don't personally have a problem with them raiding my farm! If I did ... I would be singing a different tune.

I personally don't hunt or kill anything that I don't plan on using all of to my benefit. Deer can be broken down to nothing if prepared properly. Deer hides, antlers, bones and teeth all go with me to the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association Rendezvous each Spring in Friendship, Indiana. There I can trade the hides, teeth, and bones to fur traders for crafts, and the antlers go to flintknappers there on site. The sinew goes to arrow fletchers and primitive weapons makers there as well. The meat stays in my freezer to feed me year round!

I personally think it's a disgrace to kill a deer and cut out the backstrap to leave the carcass to rot. It's the equivalent of someone killing a human to harvest the kidneys and leaving them lay! A true hunter respects all life as being sacred.

[Come and take it.]

I wonder if there isnt some kind of Psychology behind a hesitation to kill coyotes. Perhaps people see the Coyote as being so close to Rover in appearance they almost feel like it is murder or at least as bad as shooting someones dog.

In contrast there are some people who hate dogs that hunt and seem to not have a conscience at all when it comes to whether to kill a coyote or not.

My answer to the issue if it is because of the Rover identity perception is that Rover is no more human than the ant hunting for beetle grubs in your backyard. An ant has a desire to live, it has emotions. It can fear for its life, it can get agitated or angry, it can intelligently communicate with its nest mates. Yet most people would never think twice to stomp one into the ground.

So are insects lives sacred? A fishes life? A trees life?

[Brandy]

can be worse than Yotes. My neighbor lost two horses that were run through a plain wire fence by a pack of trailer trash "Rovers" that were let run 24/7/365.
Dog on my property gets one warning, if I know the owner, if not or second time, out comes the 223.
Yotes, Wolves and uncontrolled dogs are not that different.

Man is the apex predator.

[TheNatureBoy]

Not only do I have a problem killing Coyotes, I have a problem killing anything that I don't intend to eat.

[TXGunNut]

Coyotes typically eat mostly rodents and in some areas are given credit for controlling their populations. Seem to recall accounts of midwest farming areas in the thirties that elimininated coyotes through trapping and poison and were soon overrun with rats, mice and rabbits. Some wildlife biologists feel that the coyote populations rise and fall with the availability of rodents and don't need our "help" in controlling their numbers. Unfortunately some also prey on deer and livestock, others attack family pets and even people on rare occasion. I don't have a problem shooting coyotes in areas where they are causing problems. I feel feral dogs and coydogs pose a larger threat and make better targets but that's quite possibly offtopic and may offend some city folks.

[Come and take it.]

this is why many suspect that fish and wildlife purposely introduced coyotes into the eastern united states.

[TXGunNut]

Introducing a species is a dangerous concept, must have been a politician or two involved.

[Art Eatman]

Nothing surprising about coyotes expanding into the east. Changes in farming/ranching styles, with less need for predator control. Fewer chickens and lambs to protect meant the coyotes were expanding into safe territory. Plenty of natural foods for them. Coyotes are noted as opportunists.

Species expansion is nothing new. At one time, there were no armadillos east of Louisiana. Now they are down in Florida and are in south Georgia that I know of. Westward expansion is limited by the lesser rainfall as one goes west from central Texas.

Where the habitat is suitable, a species is likely to eventurally find its way there.

[Bottom Gun]

They made the top of my search and destroy list when they started killing my animals.

[Brandy]

They've been in the Adirondaks for 100s of years. They vastly expanded their range in the 1970s and on since more and more farm land went into suburbs (lots of tender cats to eat and no hunting) and the huge explosion of the deer herd. (Ditto "Painters" aka Puma)
The "they just eat mice" myth was a canard sold by the tree huggers...you haven't lived until you've seen a mule deer fawn being eaten alive by three Yotes with the mother doe frantically trying to save her fawn. Happily they were so busy, they missed me and my AR and one was a nursing bitch, so I probably eliminated 8-10 of the killers. Unhappily the fawn did not survive.

Man is the apex predator!

[TXGunNut]

The primarily rodent diet is a conclusion based on solid science but observations about their hunting ability and opportunistic kills of larger animals are well supported also. The scientists who made that conclusion most likely studied yotes as far as possible from the influence of man, not the ones we most often interact with. They are intelligent, able hunters and will do what it takes to survive. It's unreasonable to expect they'll pass up an easy meal of chickens or other livestock and pets when the opportunity presents itself. If an animal causes a problem with other animals that we consider beneficial then I think we have a responsibility as hunters to help resolve the problem. It doesn't hurt that many find it an enjoyable sport.

[rickyjames]

"They made the top of my search and destroy list when they started killing my animals"

if i live in buffalo ny and buy a new pick up truck should i be ****** off if it is rusting away after 3 years? the answer is no, i knew his happens to new cars in buffalo ny before i bought the truck. now if i lived in phoenix az and bought a new truck and it started rusting then i would be very angry.

i'm a live and let live kinda guy. i would hunt or trap coyotes for their fur when it is prime. trapping, calling, challanging shooting during prime fur season i would be in for. i would not be interested in eliminating them or shooting them off prime season. BUT..... if i was faced with them killing my animals then all bets would be off at least untill i thought i balanced the books. now there is a caveat to this. if i try to raise cattle or sheep in an area where coyotes, bears, bobcat, mt lions, wolves and other predators exist then it shouldn't surprise me if i lose some animals to predators. i don't believe farmers or ranchers have the right to eliminate what was there before them just to increase their bottom line. it is just a cost of doing businees in that area.

[rickyrick]

I got a nice 'varmint lasagna' stewing,.... about throwing distance from the pasture fence....... all are welcome to chow down.

Last time I checked, it smelled oh-so delicious:barf:

[kraigwy]

if i try to raise cattle or sheep in an area where coyotes, bears, bobcat, mt lions, wolves and other predators exist then it shouldn't surprise me if i lose some animals to predators. i don't believe farmers or ranchers have the right to eliminate what was there before them just to increase their bottom line. it is just a cost of doing businees in that area.

Taking into account the range of the coyote........and only raised food in area where they dont live.......we'd get awful hungry.

Same people who say that are the people who import wolves to area where people raise food.

[rickyjames]

"Same people who say that are the people who import wolves to area where people raise food"


no. wolves were there first. they may have been exterminated by ranchers at one point but they were there first.

now here is another question. how many ranchers actually own the land they ranch on as opposed to leaseing it from the govt? if someone is lucky enough to own outright thousands of acres of land to farm or ranch they should step up and be heard. if most of the land you use is owned by me and the rest of america then i say be glad you pay almost nothing to use this great country of ours and quit your bitching. i live in az and the ranchers here lease more land than they own. they money they save can pay for more than a few sheep or cattle and most ranchers receive some sort of repayment from the govt to boot.

[kraigwy]

The wolves imported to Wyoming in the 90s came from the Ft Nelson Area of BC.

Those wolves were never native of this state.

This is a sore subject with me, I think I'll bow out before this topic is closed or I say something I shouldnt.

[Doc Intrepid]

Like Brandy, I watched from a guard tower one night as 4 feral dogs ran down a doe and ate her alive, not 100 feet from the base of my tower.

Before that night I never knew that deer could scream.

In my world, at least, most things are relative. I'm a live and let live sort of guy also, until the predators get out of control. I am not a rancher, nor do I raise livestock, but I think that if I were responsible for raising animals I would do whatever it took to protect those animals to the best of my ability.

I wouldn't hunt coyotes for sport, but I would certainly try to protect my sheep or my other creatures.

JMHO. YMMV.

[Brandy]

population has now far exceeded what the greenies and "expert" biologists said it would and we STILL can't (legally) shoot them as that is a crime....

[TXGunNut]

I lnow someone will prove me wrong but I doubt seriously that an introduced species has ever been successful for man or beast.
Feral dogs, hogs and cats have no place in the wild and should be killed on sight.
OTOH natural predators in a natural balance will killl their natural prey and it's not something everyone wants to see.

[TXGunNut]

I thought ranchers could kill nuisance wolves. Am I wrong or do we have to convict them before a jury of their peers?

[rickyrick]

"A landowner or landowner's agent may kill any nongame wildlife other than protected birds and threatened or endangered species (see below) at any time in any number, provided the wildlife is not used in a commercial activity."

[Irish80prf]

Ok first I coyote hunt and love it, but I have no problem with anyone that doesn't hunt them or doesn't agree with it. My thinking is wolves kill coyotes because of territory and food supply, coyotes kill foxes because of territory and food supply, lions kill hyenas because of territory and food supply. What is so different about humans killing coyotes because of territory and "food supply". I wonder what a wolf is thinking when it chases a coyote down and kills it, I doubt it's, "man I shouldn't do this to this poor little thing". When the above listed animals kill their competition they have no interest in eating the meat or using the fur, they simple want them gone. This is just the way I think about it. I'm in no way trying to say everyone should see it my way I'm just giving my opinion on the subject.

[Art Eatman]

"if most of the land you use is owned by me and the rest of america then i say be glad you pay almost nothing to use this great country of ours..."

rickyjames, the "pay almost nothing" is far, far away from being correct insofar as the amount of money per acre when measured against the productivity per acre of public lands in Arizona. On most BLM and FS lands in AZ, you can run as many cows per 640-acre section as there are inches of rainfall in a year. 80 acres or more per cow/calf. The leaseholder must invest the capital for any corrals and all water supplies; the government does not. And I want you to tell specifically what subsidy any rancher gets from the government.

A coyote-killed calf is $500 down the tubes...

Prior to travel across the Great Plains, coyotes were generally unknown in the eastern US. Makes sense; they're primarily an open-country animal--but adaptable, as we know. But early writings of flora and fauna made no mention of them.

[markj]

We kill as many as we can. Awful animals they are. Kill them varmints off then the animals we want will be left, used to be this way but the bambi lovers think animals have as many rights as we do. I say no to that. Who wants to kill some yotes this weekend?

[johnwilliamson062]

So if I have a non-livestock bordering a neighbor who has livestock and is begging anyone around to take shots at coyotes is it ethical for me to take a shot?

I like the "not bothering me directly so I have no right to get involved" people in this thread. On so many subjects this stance would seem despicable. I know of one Ohio pack that has over 20 coyotes in a rural area. There isn't an animal in Ohio that could withstand an attack from 20 coyotes. There isn't much trouble with large livestock though. People with lambs, or free range chickens must be very careful though.