snake or rat loads?

sjones · August 6, 1999, 11:05 PM

would it be feasable or safe to make loads for snakes or rats using .45 colt. if so how would you load them? thanks sj

swifter... · August 7, 1999, 12:03 AM

I use a light charge of quick powder, say enough to put 220 gr into 5-600 fps.
Load powder, load a wad or two cut from a clean milk carton, press down against powder firmly. Add shot. I use a mix of 6&9, and some Trap & Skeet clubs will sell reclaimed shot by the pound, different sizes mixed.
Add another wad or two, roll crimp, and run a bead of silicon sealer around the crimp.
Quite effective out to about 3-4 yards, but be careful that swirl of shot is a GOODLY distance from yer toes!

Keeping the velocity down seems to also keep leading down. I've experimented with shaking the shot with Liquid Alox, a pain, and adding a tiny amount of moly, with indifferent results. Maybe a film can of shot, with moly, in the tumbler...
I use this in .45 Colt and .41 Mag. with good luck.

------------------
The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...

Quantrill · August 7, 1999, 09:21 AM

Swifter has good advice. The only difference I use is to use .45 gas checks instead of cardboard wads. I never did it with .45 Colt but with .38, .357 and .44. They always worked well at short distances. If you want to spend a little extra and increase the amount of shot, shot capsules are available from most reloading outlets.
Quantrill

Rod WMG · August 7, 1999, 10:07 AM

No one else seems to have had similar failures with this type of load, but I've never killed a rattler outright with one of them--haven't tried rats, but I don't think they'd be too impressed either.

I've shot three or four rattlers with this sort of load (Speer capsules and loading data) and every one had to be finally killed with a rock or a regular bullet. I'm not impressed with their ability to do the job at all.

Every time I post this somewhere, others come out of the woodwork and tell me that they are as deadly as a bolt from Thor for them. I can't explain it. I shot them at very close range and got a good pattern on them. They were definitely hurt, but not killed or immobilized. I personally have no faith in these loads at all, though some poster I respect report very good results.

I've killed about a half a million rattlers with rocks and by cutting their heads off with a shovel. Both these methods are more satisfactory for me.

Contender · August 7, 1999, 05:02 PM

Rod, What caliber shovel did you use? Long handle or short?

Rod WMG · August 7, 1999, 11:22 PM

Contender,

Good question. I don't use the "sharpshooter" type. Does that make me a turncoat? I recommend a long handle, but you might want to choke up just a bit for better control. (Don't tell Sosa or McGuire.)

One of the chief advantages is that you don't have to save your brass and reload--just spray it down with WD-40 from time to time for rust prevention.

sjones · August 7, 1999, 11:34 PM

To Rod: I wanted it mainly for when I am hunting in texas. the rattlers are pretty bad at times.I wouldn't normally be carrying a shovel with me and if I was, it would have to have a 7 foot handle on it. thats as close as I want to get.I had a run in with a copperhead when I was about 11 and still carry the marks 45 years later.I'm not trying to flame you,just want a way to do them in.

Rod WMG · August 8, 1999, 01:09 AM

sjones,

In my experience, you have to be within seven feet or less to do any good at all with the shot loads (I'm serious). And, even then, as I said, the loads don't kill them for me. I have lived in Texas for all but eleven of my 56 years and I'm not lying when I say I've killed more rattlers than I can count. When I was growing up in ranch country, we killed all we could find.

When I was 13, the ranch road which came near our house (we lived way out in the boonies) was paved. It was a godsend for rattlers. Every evening about dusk, they would come out and lie on the pavement to soak up the warmth. We and the neighbors would go up and down the road evey summer evening and kill snakes (there was practically no traffic). We generally quit at around a hundred or so. I swear on a stack of Shooter's Bibles that this is true.

I have seen a few rattlers bigger than my bicep area (I weigh 230 lbs.) and over 6 feet long. The biggest one I shot with the shot capsules was about 4 feet or so long and it required a .44 bullet to finish it off. Rocks are much better, as are shovels.

BTW, the "rattlesnake roundups" have done wonders to curtail the number of snakes in the old stomping grounds. I no longer live there, but the last few times I went back, I saw no snakes whatsoever.

As I say, many people on various boards report different results with these loads. Gunwriter Mike Venturino used to write about his recipe for shot loads in .45 Colt. He tested their patterns on potatoes, he said.

FWIW, a pard of mine took a .357 Mag. with a shot capsule and tried to finish off a turkey at point blank range with it. The turkey didn't die from the shot in the head with the shotshell .357 load either.

Maybe these loads will do the trick for you--get in close and watch out for backspatter (use eye protection), that shot can easily bounce back at you when shooting at hard surfaces, including wood. I had some .22 shot bounce back at me when shooting for pattern testing at an old cedar fence post. It's a real tendency in rocky areas. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by Rod WMG (edited August 08, 1999).]

August 6, 1999, 11:05 PM	#1
sjones Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Location: waxahachie,Texas Posts: 337	would it be feasable or safe to make loads for snakes or rats using .45 colt. if so how would you load them? thanks sj

August 7, 1999, 12:03 AM	#2
swifter... Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: So. CA Mountains Posts: 540	I use a light charge of quick powder, say enough to put 220 gr into 5-600 fps. Load powder, load a wad or two cut from a clean milk carton, press down against powder firmly. Add shot. I use a mix of 6&9, and some Trap & Skeet clubs will sell reclaimed shot by the pound, different sizes mixed. Add another wad or two, roll crimp, and run a bead of silicon sealer around the crimp. Quite effective out to about 3-4 yards, but be careful that swirl of shot is a GOODLY distance from yer toes! Keeping the velocity down seems to also keep leading down. I've experimented with shaking the shot with Liquid Alox, a pain, and adding a tiny amount of moly, with indifferent results. Maybe a film can of shot, with moly, in the tumbler... I use this in .45 Colt and .41 Mag. with good luck. ------------------ The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...

August 7, 1999, 09:21 AM	#3
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Swifter has good advice. The only difference I use is to use .45 gas checks instead of cardboard wads. I never did it with .45 Colt but with .38, .357 and .44. They always worked well at short distances. If you want to spend a little extra and increase the amount of shot, shot capsules are available from most reloading outlets. Quantrill

August 7, 1999, 10:07 AM	#4
Rod WMG Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 1999 Posts: 167	No one else seems to have had similar failures with this type of load, but I've never killed a rattler outright with one of them--haven't tried rats, but I don't think they'd be too impressed either. I've shot three or four rattlers with this sort of load (Speer capsules and loading data) and every one had to be finally killed with a rock or a regular bullet. I'm not impressed with their ability to do the job at all. Every time I post this somewhere, others come out of the woodwork and tell me that they are as deadly as a bolt from Thor for them. I can't explain it. I shot them at very close range and got a good pattern on them. They were definitely hurt, but not killed or immobilized. I personally have no faith in these loads at all, though some poster I respect report very good results. I've killed about a half a million rattlers with rocks and by cutting their heads off with a shovel. Both these methods are more satisfactory for me.

August 7, 1999, 05:02 PM	#5
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Rod, What caliber shovel did you use? Long handle or short?

August 7, 1999, 11:22 PM	#6
Rod WMG Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 1999 Posts: 167	Contender, Good question. I don't use the "sharpshooter" type. Does that make me a turncoat? I recommend a long handle, but you might want to choke up just a bit for better control. (Don't tell Sosa or McGuire.) One of the chief advantages is that you don't have to save your brass and reload--just spray it down with WD-40 from time to time for rust prevention.

August 7, 1999, 11:34 PM	#7
sjones Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Location: waxahachie,Texas Posts: 337	To Rod: I wanted it mainly for when I am hunting in texas. the rattlers are pretty bad at times.I wouldn't normally be carrying a shovel with me and if I was, it would have to have a 7 foot handle on it. thats as close as I want to get.I had a run in with a copperhead when I was about 11 and still carry the marks 45 years later.I'm not trying to flame you,just want a way to do them in.

August 8, 1999, 01:09 AM	#8
Rod WMG Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 1999 Posts: 167	sjones, In my experience, you have to be within seven feet or less to do any good at all with the shot loads (I'm serious). And, even then, as I said, the loads don't kill them for me. I have lived in Texas for all but eleven of my 56 years and I'm not lying when I say I've killed more rattlers than I can count. When I was growing up in ranch country, we killed all we could find. When I was 13, the ranch road which came near our house (we lived way out in the boonies) was paved. It was a godsend for rattlers. Every evening about dusk, they would come out and lie on the pavement to soak up the warmth. We and the neighbors would go up and down the road evey summer evening and kill snakes (there was practically no traffic). We generally quit at around a hundred or so. I swear on a stack of Shooter's Bibles that this is true. I have seen a few rattlers bigger than my bicep area (I weigh 230 lbs.) and over 6 feet long. The biggest one I shot with the shot capsules was about 4 feet or so long and it required a .44 bullet to finish it off. Rocks are much better, as are shovels. BTW, the "rattlesnake roundups" have done wonders to curtail the number of snakes in the old stomping grounds. I no longer live there, but the last few times I went back, I saw no snakes whatsoever. As I say, many people on various boards report different results with these loads. Gunwriter Mike Venturino used to write about his recipe for shot loads in .45 Colt. He tested their patterns on potatoes, he said. FWIW, a pard of mine took a .357 Mag. with a shot capsule and tried to finish off a turkey at point blank range with it. The turkey didn't die from the shot in the head with the shotshell .357 load either. Maybe these loads will do the trick for you--get in close and watch out for backspatter (use eye protection), that shot can easily bounce back at you when shooting at hard surfaces, including wood. I had some .22 shot bounce back at me when shooting for pattern testing at an old cedar fence post. It's a real tendency in rocky areas. Good luck. [This message has been edited by Rod WMG (edited August 08, 1999).]