conical molds for the pietta 1858

[dr1445]

I have a pietta 1858 on back order, meanwhile I have acquired 25 lbs of lead for casting. I am looking at the lee conical molds 452-200 and 452-160. the 200 grain has the stepped base to aid loading but might have a clearance issue with the loading gate of the pietta. I found some info on the 160 that stated it shoots well, but no mention of any difficultly in loading it square in the cylinder. Anyone with experience loading the 160 grain in the pietta?

[Kappe]

Hold on there, bud. The 450-200-1R and 456-220-1R are the only .44 caliber conical bullet molds Lee makes.

The 452-200-RF and 452-160-RF you mentioned are .45 Colt bullet molds. They have no stepped base and will be nearly impossible to load in your Pietta New Model Army.

[dr1445]

Your correct, I did mean to reference the 450-200 not the 452. how does the 450-200 fit the latest pietta 1858 loading gate? I was interested in the 160 because the pietta I ordered has fixed sights and would shoot lower than the 200.

[Kappe]

I believe your Pietta NMA should accept the 450-200 just fine. duelist1954 uses them in his in this video.
http://youtu.be/a0MUpBA6JHo?t=4m59s

[dr1445]

looks good, i will order one and give it go.

[rodwhaincamo]

I'm having Accurate Molds make me a ~160 grn FN, as well as a FN bullet that's only 0.460" OAL, which ought to fit nicely under the rammer. I'm assuming it'll weigh nearly 200 grns.

What do you intend these bullets to do? If just punching paper the Lee conicals are much cheaper.

The Pietta's (not the Shooter's Model), I understand, have slow twists with RB's in mind, and I hear that longer bullets/conicals just don't do so well in comparison. But I'd imagine that a bullet roughly the length of a RB would do quite well, as would the ~160 grn bullet that's something like .410" OAL.

I'm saving up the last of my coins for this mold (5 cavity with 3 designs). He designed the first 2, and then reworked them a bit as I didn't know exactly what I was wanting. His 2 renditions aren't precisely what I have in mind, and so I'll have him change it when I order as he's not fond of reworking them without payment. I'll also be adding a ~270 grn FN for hunting things that might want retribution.

Here are the bullets as is now:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-160B-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-180S-D.png

I intend on having the me plats widened, the driving bands elongated, and the base diameter changed to .445".

I'm intending on reaming my Pietta '58's chambers to .450-.453" so that I can share these bullets with my ROA, and because they are undersized to begin with, and I've read too many accounts of improved accuracy.

[dr1445]

Mostly I am just a ancient paper puncher, looking to keep an old mind in working order. I was looking at the loading gate clearance, the pietta twist rate that seems more suited to a lighter bullet and the barrel bore which seems to run .451” I was considering getting a chucking reamer to enlarge the cylinder bores for the .452 bullet and making a hole in a parallel jaw plier to reduce the bullet base, in order to facilitate loading. That is till I saw the video, the 450 200 seem to load and shoot well.

[rodwhaincamo]

I've also heard of people resizing just the base of .45 cal bullets.

[Hellgate]

The mold plans assume WHEEL WEIGHTS as the alloy. Pure soft lead will cast a smaller diameter bullet so you will need to figure that the dimensions might be a few thou smaller than the plans show. I don't know the exact shrinkage rate but a hard alloy mold with throw a smaller soft lead bullet.

[rodwhaincamo]

When designing/ordering the mold you mention what alloy, if any, will be used so that he adjusts the dimensions. So it would still drop the same size as it would be slightly different than what is shown. So dropped at the same size it'll be slightly heavier.

[DD4lifeusmc]

Unless Lee made a recent change and I haven't checked recently.
The 45-200 theoretically casts in pure lead
.450 base diameter. 200 grns ( give or take a bit) and approximately .560 high
I have a less than year old pietta 1858, this bullet will not pass under the loading ram
Rodwha indicated he is having them make him a custom mould.
His indicated 162 gr is what it will weigh or at least close with pure lead.
Most of our 1858's chambers are .446 - .449 in diameter.
Yes the old Lee stand by .450 will work, but it can be difficult to start and seat straight.
In your case you will likely need to remove the cylinder to load.
Lee moulds are about $25 for their standard already made.
Accurate moulds are about $185 plus you need handles.
I have a custom mould 45-195r. this casts base. .446 two sealing rings .455 a generous grease groove and a overall height of .528. Even it being shorter won't quite fit under the loading ram on my Pietta.
What you need to do is try some first before you spend a lot of money on a mould that you may not like or may not work.
PM me with a name address etc I'll send a few of each. You pay postage though.
I have both the Lee 45-200 and The 45-195r

[Hellgate]

DD4life,
I'm wondering if you are talking about the ROA LEE conical bullet that cast the largest band at .456". My LEE 200gr mold throws bullets that drop to the 2nd or 3rd driving band and have fit 3 different makes of Remingtons (Uberti, Pietta and Euroarms). The ROA bullet, I think, is .450 at the base but the 44cal(?) is smaller and goes into the .448 chambers on my Ubertis just fine.

[51colt]

When i cast .450 Lee Bullets with pure lead i ranch dip them twice in Lee Alox tumble lube. If i use dental film lead i tumble lube them. I shoot them with out wads or grease. Very accurate.
Mike

[Captainkirk]

I use them in all my '58s. They seem to be a pretty tight squeeze in the Piettas compared to my ASP's but they will go.

[dr1445]

the 5 1/2" pietta 1858 from cabela's arrived about the same time as some sample bullets from DD$lifeusmc. the cylinder holes were at the bottom of the tolerance band [.446"] and the frame hit the bullets, in fact if i staged a ball and rotated it under the ram the frame would nick the ball. the 45-195r with the rebated heel not would enter any of the chambers, the same of course for the 45-200. i filed a clearance in the frame for the ball, not much more than a champfer was needed. if i placed a bullet directly under the ram, it hits the frame. mcmaster carr has chucking reamers for around $30, i just need to decide on which diameter to ream the cylinders, then dremel a clearance in the frame for the bullets.

[salvadore]

I use Lee's heel type 36 conical in my Navy Colt (ASM) but have to push the heel portion into the chamber before it will rotate under the rammer. Does anyone have experience with this conical and the Uberti 1858 Navy?

Finally, I purchased the Lee .450/200 mold, and since my pots are full of center fire handgun and rifle alloy I haven't had a chance to cast any pure lead conicals. Is this bullet going to fit my Uberti 1860?

[Hellgate]

Salvadore,
I can, with some jiggling, get the LEE 44 conical into my Hartford Model ASM 1860 Army. I have been unable to get that conical into any Pietta 1860 Army that I have owned. All brands of Remington that I have owned take them easily (ASP/Euroarms, Pietta, and Uberti). It's all a matter of how much metal has been polished away under the rammer as the bullet rounds the corner to get under the rammer. What also helps is if the chambers are large enough to let the bullet drop down to the second driving band then it is shorter and fits fine.

[salvadore]

Appreciate the info HG, my 30 year old Dillon powder hopper went south today and is in the mail to AZ. so will have an opportunity to empty one of the pots into a 45 acp mold. Maybe in a few days will be able to cast some of the 45 lead conicals cast.

[dr1445]

I found a couple of the lee 45-200 bullets that would start in the .446” chambers. That got me inspired to get the files out. About an hour later, after file, fit and function, etc I had clearance for the bullet to rotate into the ram port. Now I need to get a lead pot, the lee mold and cast some bullets before a reamer size can be determined.

[freedom475]

If you are just punching paper or targets, I can think of no good reason to put up with the extra head-ache of loading and casting the conicals.

Round balls are SO much easier to deal with, and they shoot just fine.

I have the lee conical and it works well enough...but it's no advantage over the RB, especially when it comes to loading them straight with the revolvers rammer.

[salvadore]

Freedom, you know that common sense has little to do with gun nuts, right?

[dr1445]

I would say it is a matter of using the full capabilities of the revolver, the conical carries more energy and has better penetration then a rb. I had a 44 mag for many years, mostly I shot 44 special power loads, did I have full house ammo on hand and did I shoot it to keep current yes.

[maillemaker]

If you are just punching paper or targets, I can think of no good reason to put up with the extra head-ache of loading and casting the conicals.

Round balls are SO much easier to deal with, and they shoot just fine.

There are a few reasons someone might be interested in conicals.

If you are competition shooting, people are always looking for a refinement of the "optimal load" for accuracy. Now most people I have heard talk about shooting conicals vs. round balls in revolvers claim they get better accuracy with round balls. But Dualist in his article in Guns of the Old West had better accuracy with conicals.

Another reason you might want to use conicals is if you want to create historically-accurate cartridges for the revolver, which used conical bullets.

Finally, while not of any importance for paper targets, as dr1445 points out conical bullets are generally heavier than round balls and thus deliver more energy to the target.

Steve

[rodwhaincamo]

I have some 240 grn Kaido conicals so I decided to see if they'll work in my new Pietta '58. Here's a pic of the bullet's OAL and a short video I posted of what needs to be done to seat it:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=742677

[maillemaker]

Looks good. How do they shoot for you?

Steve