Quick Load conundrum & I just got started

Brutus · May 30, 2015, 03:30 PM

Okay so Friday I went to the range to chronograph some loads, nothing hot all target rounds. First up. 230gr. Rainier plated round nose 1.250 O/L Winchester case & primer 5.8 gr, ww231. 20 shot string.
Actual chrono results: avg. velocity 837fps max. velocity 856fps.

Friday my copy of Quick Load arrives.
Above data is plugged in including 24.8gr actual h20 water capacity.
Quick Load results: 921fps. 434 ft/lbs of energy. and 22,332 psi.
Holy mackerel the big red warning says I'm gonna blow up my gun

.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?
By the way my 200gr. load with 6.0gr. of 231 matched up exactly.

rtpzwms · May 30, 2015, 06:11 PM

are we making 45ACP?

Brutus · May 30, 2015, 06:13 PM

Yes sir forgot to mention that.

mehavey · May 30, 2015, 06:35 PM

When I run that combo in Quickload for a 5" barrel, I get 918fps/21,188psi

When I look at the comparable bullet/powder combo in Lyman's 49th for their 225grLRN* for W231/5.8gr (their MAX load) they predict 902fps/17,500 CUP (their highest pressure load of all loads) Note that a 230-grainer would produce slightly higher pressure.

Since CUP ≠ psi, I went looking for newer SAAMI specs (which Quickload alo lists to find 45ACP max is 21,000psi

In other words, QuickLoad is actually telling you true pressure predictions, that pretty well point to what Lyman 49th is listing as Max Load.

BTW: what length is your barrel?)

* "Plated" tends to act a lot like lead.
(...and no, you are not going to blow up your gun. Plus-P ammo actually 23,000psi spec)

.

Brutus · May 30, 2015, 08:07 PM

Guess whats throwing me for a loop here is my actual chrono readings. which is about what I would expect from this recipe, that and the fact my 200gr. load is right on the money. Barrel length is 5" shot from a Kimber Super Match. Have shot this load through a Gold cup for 30 years without a problem. Hell I think I'm still using the same brass. Just got started with this software so I can't help to think I have an improperly set parameter. As a side note the 9mm, 10mm and .44mag. results were all spot on between actual chornograped readings and Quick Load estimates. All I can say is Huh!

jr05 · May 31, 2015, 07:24 AM

That sounds about right to me. A bunch of load manuals list even 5.3gr as max for 231, 5.8 is certainly up there with pressure. Having said that I have loaded it without pressure signs, I have settled on 5.0-5.2 though with good results. Is there a reason you need that high of a charge weight since you mentioned it was only target loads?

Brutus · May 31, 2015, 08:52 AM

No oddly enough it was listed as a middle of the road load in my old Speer reloading manual. I've used it so long and often I never thought to cross reference it. Over the years I have gathered 5 or 6 other manuals, just never thought to look, In light of the findings from Quick load I have researched the data and found that, for some reason Speer seems to be way on the high end compared to other sources.
Still in all, my chrono results still doesn't agree, go figure.
Definitely going to reduce my load to say 5.0 or 5.2 grains.
Fortunately 200gr. flat points and SWC's are my most commonly used bullets so none of my pistols have seen a steady diet of these. Besides less powder saves me money.

higgite · May 31, 2015, 09:10 AM

I suggest you call NECO at 800-451-3550 and see what light they can shed on it. I sent them an email question on another aspect of QL shortly after I got it. Their response was for me to call, which I did, and got my question answered plus some by a very knowledgeable gentleman named Ed. Well worth the effort.

If you do call them, please let us know what they say.

Brutus · May 31, 2015, 09:46 AM

Already spoke with Ed about my Quick Load setup, seems like a very nice guy and I already bent his ear with rookie questions, did I also mention how patient he is.
I'm just going to hold off until I can chrono some 5.0 & 5.2gr. loads and see what I get. For all I know I've been blowing unburnt powder out my barrel all along which would explain all the residue left on the pistols after words.
I like to emulate factory velocity in my practice ammo which explains my desire to achieve 800 to 850 fps. I believe those are standard ball velocities.

Mr. mehavey
According to the mfg's. plated bullets should use jacketed loading data for all loads except those exceeding 1200fps, least that's what they told me.
Then again Speer said 5.8gr of 231 were okay.

mehavey · May 31, 2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Unburnt powder....

Actually, 230grLRN/5.8gr/W231 burns fairly completely (99%+). You're good to go there.
...and if it's working for you, no real "need" to change.

Plated vs Lead vs Jacketed
Lyman 49th (again

) essentially says 5.8/W231/230-jacketed produces (very) slightly
less pressure compared against the 225 Lead. It's all about bore sealing.

5.8gr/w231 is still MAX for both however.

.

Brutus · May 31, 2015, 10:27 AM

I'll be damned even tells ya how much powder gets burned. Didn't even notice that little box before you mentioned it. What a neet new toy this is.

May 30, 2015, 03:30 PM	#1
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Quick Load conundrum & I just got started Okay so Friday I went to the range to chronograph some loads, nothing hot all target rounds. First up. 230gr. Rainier plated round nose 1.250 O/L Winchester case & primer 5.8 gr, ww231. 20 shot string. Actual chrono results: avg. velocity 837fps max. velocity 856fps. Friday my copy of Quick Load arrives. Above data is plugged in including 24.8gr actual h20 water capacity. Quick Load results: 921fps. 434 ft/lbs of energy. and 22,332 psi. Holy mackerel the big red warning says I'm gonna blow up my gun. Any idea what I'm doing wrong here? By the way my 200gr. load with 6.0gr. of 231 matched up exactly. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

May 30, 2015, 06:11 PM	#2
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	are we making 45ACP? __________________ Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.

May 30, 2015, 06:13 PM	#3
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Yes sir forgot to mention that. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

May 30, 2015, 06:35 PM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,883	When I run that combo in Quickload for a 5" barrel, I get 918fps/21,188psi When I look at the comparable bullet/powder combo in Lyman's 49th for their 225grLRN* for W231/5.8gr (their MAX load) they predict 902fps/17,500 CUP (their highest pressure load of all loads) Note that a 230-grainer would produce slightly higher pressure. Since CUP ≠ psi, I went looking for newer SAAMI specs (which Quickload alo lists to find 45ACP max is 21,000psi In other words, QuickLoad is actually telling you true pressure predictions, that pretty well point to what Lyman 49th is listing as Max Load. BTW: what length is your barrel?) * "Plated" tends to act a lot like lead. (...and no, you are not going to blow up your gun. Plus-P ammo actually 23,000psi spec) . Last edited by mehavey; May 30, 2015 at 06:45 PM.

May 30, 2015, 08:07 PM	#5
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Guess whats throwing me for a loop here is my actual chrono readings. which is about what I would expect from this recipe, that and the fact my 200gr. load is right on the money. Barrel length is 5" shot from a Kimber Super Match. Have shot this load through a Gold cup for 30 years without a problem. Hell I think I'm still using the same brass. Just got started with this software so I can't help to think I have an improperly set parameter. As a side note the 9mm, 10mm and .44mag. results were all spot on between actual chornograped readings and Quick Load estimates. All I can say is Huh! __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

May 31, 2015, 07:24 AM	#6
jr05 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2006 Location: NH Posts: 145	That sounds about right to me. A bunch of load manuals list even 5.3gr as max for 231, 5.8 is certainly up there with pressure. Having said that I have loaded it without pressure signs, I have settled on 5.0-5.2 though with good results. Is there a reason you need that high of a charge weight since you mentioned it was only target loads?

May 31, 2015, 08:52 AM	#7
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	No oddly enough it was listed as a middle of the road load in my old Speer reloading manual. I've used it so long and often I never thought to cross reference it. Over the years I have gathered 5 or 6 other manuals, just never thought to look, In light of the findings from Quick load I have researched the data and found that, for some reason Speer seems to be way on the high end compared to other sources. Still in all, my chrono results still doesn't agree, go figure. Definitely going to reduce my load to say 5.0 or 5.2 grains. Fortunately 200gr. flat points and SWC's are my most commonly used bullets so none of my pistols have seen a steady diet of these. Besides less powder saves me money. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill. Last edited by Brutus; May 31, 2015 at 08:58 AM.

May 31, 2015, 09:10 AM	#8
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	I suggest you call NECO at 800-451-3550 and see what light they can shed on it. I sent them an email question on another aspect of QL shortly after I got it. Their response was for me to call, which I did, and got my question answered plus some by a very knowledgeable gentleman named Ed. Well worth the effort. If you do call them, please let us know what they say.

May 31, 2015, 09:46 AM	#9
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Already spoke with Ed about my Quick Load setup, seems like a very nice guy and I already bent his ear with rookie questions, did I also mention how patient he is. I'm just going to hold off until I can chrono some 5.0 & 5.2gr. loads and see what I get. For all I know I've been blowing unburnt powder out my barrel all along which would explain all the residue left on the pistols after words. I like to emulate factory velocity in my practice ammo which explains my desire to achieve 800 to 850 fps. I believe those are standard ball velocities. Mr. mehavey According to the mfg's. plated bullets should use jacketed loading data for all loads except those exceeding 1200fps, least that's what they told me. Then again Speer said 5.8gr of 231 were okay. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

May 31, 2015, 10:27 AM	#11
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	I'll be damned even tells ya how much powder gets burned. Didn't even notice that little box before you mentioned it. What a neet new toy this is. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

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