Egyptian Rollingblock

Joker0370 · August 24, 2009, 03:14 PM

My father in law gave me a few old rifles that were former wall hangers at his mothers house. He passed them on to me, and i've been working on ID'ing them and trying to figure out what i want to do with them. One i found out was a Mosin, and i've since re-built it back to working order. The second i've ID'd as what i belive to be an Egyptian Remington Rolling Block (lots of funky writing on the top of the barrel and reciever). With the Mosin-Nagant i found tons of info, but with the egyptian rolling block not as much. Much of it appears to be rusty, but all the parts appear to still move and operate. I think the firing pin is broken, but not much else appears to be missing. It looks like it has been painted black, but with what kind of paint i don't have a clue. The wood is ok, but not flawless or anything. Is this something i should just leave alone, or is this something that would be ok to strip back down and build back up to working order? Personally, i rather have guns that function than something to just show on a wall, but at the same time i don't want to mess up something that might be worth more as an antique. From looking around these don't appear to be worth too much.

If i were to rebuild it, were the recievers blued or treated with some other coating? They don't look blue in most photos and right now everything is painted black. And if i'm reading correctly, the .43 Egyptian round was a black powder cartidge, correct?

Any suggestions are welcome.

mp25ds4 · August 24, 2009, 05:06 PM

I would leave it alone until you find out more about it, if all else fails google it

qwik · August 24, 2009, 05:32 PM

love to see pic s

James K · August 24, 2009, 08:03 PM

I have seen a lot of those but most had no trace of the original finish. IIRC, the few exceptions had color case hardened receivers and the barrels and other steel parts were blued.

Jim

Joker0370 · August 24, 2009, 08:35 PM

Here are some pics. Excuse the quality and other errors as i don't post too many pictures.

Joker0370 · August 24, 2009, 08:38 PM

it looks like if you watch the slide show you also get the added picture of when i got three staples in my head. guess thats the last picture i put on photobucket before today....

Jim Watson · August 24, 2009, 09:20 PM

The Egyptian Army bought Remington Rolling Block rifles starting in 1870.
They sold a lot of them surplus into the USA in the 1950s and 1960s before GCA 1968 banned mailorder gun sales. They were cheap because they were well worn and ammunition was old and stale when available at all. .43 Egyptian ammunition is now available but extremely expensive, $118 a box of 20 from Buffalo Arms.

The black paint is probably something similar to old fashioned stove enamel, the gun would originally have been case hardened and blued like most good quality American firearms of the day.

If anybody offers you a lot of money for it before you can disturb its handsome Egyptian paint job, SELL! Otherwise, I think cleaning it up would be good recreation. This one looks like it barely escaped being made into a lamp about 1965.

Tamara · August 24, 2009, 10:02 PM

Here's a web page with some data on Egyptian military Remington M1868 "rolling block" rifles.

Joker0370 · August 25, 2009, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the link. Thats actually the first site i saw when i started looking. A bit of history about it, but not as much stuff as i could find for the mosin. I figured out a bit more by opening the search and looking for remington rolling block info. More sites for that.

I didn't think this was something super, but better to ask then to find out i messed something 'good' up. I figure i have a few choices: Rebuild and get stuck with a caliber that is expensive and rare, or rebuild and rebarrel to something not as rare. Of course, i guess i could try the first and always graduate to the second. I'd like to strip that paint off and see what marking got painted over. I think i can see the cresent moon on the left side of the reciever but the paint is just so thick on this thing. Eh... the Valley Forge gun show is coming up, maybe i'll hold off and take it up there and see if maybe i can get a better idea of parts and such for it.

Tamara · August 25, 2009, 12:41 PM

Did you find ammo? Buffalo Arms has it. Bring money, though.

(I own a few old military black powder cartridge rifles. I feel your pain.

)

BobbyT · August 25, 2009, 06:38 PM

As far as your staple picture goes, we can see that because your photobucket account is public. If you go into the options or settings and set it to private, we'd be able to see specific individual pictures you linked to, but not actually go through the rest of your account.

James K · August 25, 2009, 07:02 PM

I have to be honest and say that any money spent on refurbishing that gun would be pretty well wasted. It might make a nice "winter time" project, but those guns are worth so little that many were made into floor lamps when they were imported. And, unlike some other guns, they have not gained in relative value since.

Jim

Magnum Wheel Man · August 26, 2009, 06:39 AM

agree with JIM... but some of them make pretty good project guns...

generally the Egyptian guns are litterally sand blasted from use, & most markings, & original lines are severely worn... often in that condition, they aren't much good for anything ( lamps maybe ) if all the markings are still there, & they aren't too worn, they can get cleaned up, but almost always require some freshening... & as far as guns go, they are pretty easy to rebarrel / rechamber to a more shootable cartridge ( although it should still be a black powder pressure cartridge )

the Cresent moon on the left side at the top is barely visible through the wear & the paint, but it is there, so I agree with you assessment that it's Egyptian...

often the pins & lots of the action pieces have become loose from use in the gritty environment...

mine required fitting new pins for accuracy on this build, but here is mine ( with no paint )

it was originally converted to a bench rest gun in the 60's, & I found it gathering dust in the corner of the local toy store... it was wearing some pretty impressive wood, & is a #1 black powder action, but had some #5 smokeless parts added & had been chambered in 225 Winchester ( which was way too hot for the reciever )

here is an old thread, with several other pics...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=315963

Joker0370 · August 26, 2009, 04:16 PM

Thanks. The vibe i'm pretty much getting is that i can't screw it up any more then its present condition, and thats kinda what i was looking for. I figure classic guns are like classic cars, you rebuild them because you want to, and your not promised to get any of the money you put into them back.

Tamara · August 26, 2009, 08:18 PM

This is truth.

I spent good money just so I could launch one projectile down the bore of a short-lever Martini. Never mind that it keyholed at 7 yards, I fired it!

Jim Watson · August 26, 2009, 11:18 PM

I had the same sensation firing a .500 BPE double. Never mind that the Sharps .50 bullet was way too heavy for the twist and hitting that gong with a keyholing slug was just luck, but boy, did it ring and swing.

August 24, 2009, 05:06 PM	#2
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	I would leave it alone until you find out more about it, if all else fails google it __________________ Liberal Newscaster Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked: 'What do you feel.....when you shoot a Terrorist?' The Marine shrugged and replied, "A Slight Recoil."

August 24, 2009, 05:32 PM	#3
qwik Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: nc Posts: 152	love to see pic s __________________ havejeepwilltravel [0lllllll0]

August 24, 2009, 10:02 PM	#8
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Here's a web page with some data on Egyptian military Remington M1868 "rolling block" rifles. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

August 25, 2009, 12:41 PM	#10
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Did you find ammo? Buffalo Arms has it. Bring money, though. (I own a few old military black powder cartridge rifles. I feel your pain. ) __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

August 26, 2009, 08:18 PM	#15
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	This is truth. I spent good money just so I could launch one projectile down the bore of a short-lever Martini. Never mind that it keyholed at 7 yards, I fired it! __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

August 24, 2009, 03:14 PM	#1
Joker0370 Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 19	Egyptian Rollingblock My father in law gave me a few old rifles that were former wall hangers at his mothers house. He passed them on to me, and i've been working on ID'ing them and trying to figure out what i want to do with them. One i found out was a Mosin, and i've since re-built it back to working order. The second i've ID'd as what i belive to be an Egyptian Remington Rolling Block (lots of funky writing on the top of the barrel and reciever). With the Mosin-Nagant i found tons of info, but with the egyptian rolling block not as much. Much of it appears to be rusty, but all the parts appear to still move and operate. I think the firing pin is broken, but not much else appears to be missing. It looks like it has been painted black, but with what kind of paint i don't have a clue. The wood is ok, but not flawless or anything. Is this something i should just leave alone, or is this something that would be ok to strip back down and build back up to working order? Personally, i rather have guns that function than something to just show on a wall, but at the same time i don't want to mess up something that might be worth more as an antique. From looking around these don't appear to be worth too much. If i were to rebuild it, were the recievers blued or treated with some other coating? They don't look blue in most photos and right now everything is painted black. And if i'm reading correctly, the .43 Egyptian round was a black powder cartidge, correct? Any suggestions are welcome.

August 24, 2009, 08:03 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have seen a lot of those but most had no trace of the original finish. IIRC, the few exceptions had color case hardened receivers and the barrels and other steel parts were blued. Jim

August 24, 2009, 08:35 PM	#5
Joker0370 Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 19	Here are some pics. Excuse the quality and other errors as i don't post too many pictures.

August 24, 2009, 08:38 PM	#6
Joker0370 Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 19	it looks like if you watch the slide show you also get the added picture of when i got three staples in my head. guess thats the last picture i put on photobucket before today....

August 24, 2009, 09:20 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	The Egyptian Army bought Remington Rolling Block rifles starting in 1870. They sold a lot of them surplus into the USA in the 1950s and 1960s before GCA 1968 banned mailorder gun sales. They were cheap because they were well worn and ammunition was old and stale when available at all. .43 Egyptian ammunition is now available but extremely expensive, $118 a box of 20 from Buffalo Arms. The black paint is probably something similar to old fashioned stove enamel, the gun would originally have been case hardened and blued like most good quality American firearms of the day. If anybody offers you a lot of money for it before you can disturb its handsome Egyptian paint job, SELL! Otherwise, I think cleaning it up would be good recreation. This one looks like it barely escaped being made into a lamp about 1965.

August 25, 2009, 12:20 PM	#9
Joker0370 Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 19	Thanks for the link. Thats actually the first site i saw when i started looking. A bit of history about it, but not as much stuff as i could find for the mosin. I figured out a bit more by opening the search and looking for remington rolling block info. More sites for that. I didn't think this was something super, but better to ask then to find out i messed something 'good' up. I figure i have a few choices: Rebuild and get stuck with a caliber that is expensive and rare, or rebuild and rebarrel to something not as rare. Of course, i guess i could try the first and always graduate to the second. I'd like to strip that paint off and see what marking got painted over. I think i can see the cresent moon on the left side of the reciever but the paint is just so thick on this thing. Eh... the Valley Forge gun show is coming up, maybe i'll hold off and take it up there and see if maybe i can get a better idea of parts and such for it.

August 25, 2009, 06:38 PM	#11
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	As far as your staple picture goes, we can see that because your photobucket account is public. If you go into the options or settings and set it to private, we'd be able to see specific individual pictures you linked to, but not actually go through the rest of your account.

August 25, 2009, 07:02 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have to be honest and say that any money spent on refurbishing that gun would be pretty well wasted. It might make a nice "winter time" project, but those guns are worth so little that many were made into floor lamps when they were imported. And, unlike some other guns, they have not gained in relative value since. Jim

August 26, 2009, 04:16 PM	#14
Joker0370 Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 19	Thanks. The vibe i'm pretty much getting is that i can't screw it up any more then its present condition, and thats kinda what i was looking for. I figure classic guns are like classic cars, you rebuild them because you want to, and your not promised to get any of the money you put into them back.

August 26, 2009, 11:18 PM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I had the same sensation firing a .500 BPE double. Never mind that the Sharps .50 bullet was way too heavy for the twist and hitting that gong with a keyholing slug was just luck, but boy, did it ring and swing.

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