Jacketed versus lead powder charges

Blue Duck357 · August 20, 2002, 06:20 PM

Looking over my old Speer manual I noticed the maximum powder charges for both 357 and 38 Special 158 grain lead SWC's are substantially lower than for the 158 grain jacketed bullets.

This is actually the reverse of what I assumed. I thought the lead bullets would actually lower the pressure in the same load as compared to a jacketed round???

griz · August 20, 2002, 06:36 PM

Not sure if your manual falls into this catagory or not, but some books list less than max loads for lead bullets. I guess they are figuring that the lower velocities would reduce leading, and some have the notion that if you need maximum power you should use jacketed bullets. I don't subscribe to that belief myself.

Jeeper · August 20, 2002, 06:59 PM

Exactly what was said above. A lot of the manuals only believe that lead should be shot at less than a certain velocity. That is where they max out their loads at.

labgrade · August 20, 2002, 09:02 PM

True & 'cause most major pistol bullet manufacturers (that have reloading manuals) didn't "bother" with anything lead other than swagged.

Push these puppies too fast & you'll very much get leading.

Blue Duck357 · August 20, 2002, 10:32 PM

Thanks guys!

I think your right on this, the manual (#10) seems really overly concerned about leading.

May I ask if there is any general consensus that if a load is listed as safe for a Jacketed bullet if it should also be safe for the same weight lead bullet?

labgrade · August 21, 2002, 08:44 AM

There's safe 'n safe, BlueDuck.

Push a jacketed bullet at 1200 fps & you're not even close to the bullet's capability. Do the same with most swagged leads & you'll likely have lead splatters out the bore. I know from experience.

I wouldn't say it's not safe tp push swagged lead this fast, but accuracy sucks & the clean-up isn't pretty.

A good hard-cast bullet though can be pushed right up there with the best jacketeds, IMO - in handguns anyway.

Quick addition/edit - I wouldn't substitute jacketed data with lead data, or visa versa. There's actual data for each freely available - use it.

Cheapo · August 21, 2002, 10:11 PM

Consult the Winchester and other reloading data that actually publishes the instrumental pressures for both lead and jacketed bullet loads WITH THE SAME POWDERS before you go off spreading myths.

And we'd better remember that there's more than likely a certain pressure "spike" or temperature variable or average vs peak pressure variability or other valid reason why the engineering types would stop at a "maximum" load that's maybe 3,000 PSI/CUP or Piezo or whatever measurement less than the SAAMI max for your cartridge.

It goes all over the place. I've seen anywhere from 0% to 7% LESS than the jacketed load being the max for lead. It _appears_ that you will often be sumpin' like 30-100 fps slower at max pressure with lead bullets vs. jacketed of equal bullet weight. But not always.

August 20, 2002, 06:59 PM	#3
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	Exactly what was said above. A lot of the manuals only believe that lead should be shot at less than a certain velocity. That is where they max out their loads at. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

August 21, 2002, 10:11 PM	#7
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Watch It!! Consult the Winchester and other reloading data that actually publishes the instrumental pressures for both lead and jacketed bullet loads WITH THE SAME POWDERS before you go off spreading myths. And we'd better remember that there's more than likely a certain pressure "spike" or temperature variable or average vs peak pressure variability or other valid reason why the engineering types would stop at a "maximum" load that's maybe 3,000 PSI/CUP or Piezo or whatever measurement less than the SAAMI max for your cartridge. It goes all over the place. I've seen anywhere from 0% to 7% LESS than the jacketed load being the max for lead. It _appears_ that you will often be sumpin' like 30-100 fps slower at max pressure with lead bullets vs. jacketed of equal bullet weight. But not always. __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

August 20, 2002, 06:20 PM	#1
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	Jacketed versus lead powder charges Looking over my old Speer manual I noticed the maximum powder charges for both 357 and 38 Special 158 grain lead SWC's are substantially lower than for the 158 grain jacketed bullets. This is actually the reverse of what I assumed. I thought the lead bullets would actually lower the pressure in the same load as compared to a jacketed round???

August 20, 2002, 06:36 PM	#2
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	Not sure if your manual falls into this catagory or not, but some books list less than max loads for lead bullets. I guess they are figuring that the lower velocities would reduce leading, and some have the notion that if you need maximum power you should use jacketed bullets. I don't subscribe to that belief myself.

August 20, 2002, 09:02 PM	#4
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	True & 'cause most major pistol bullet manufacturers (that have reloading manuals) didn't "bother" with anything lead other than swagged. Push these puppies too fast & you'll very much get leading.

August 20, 2002, 10:32 PM	#5
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	Thanks guys! I think your right on this, the manual (#10) seems really overly concerned about leading. May I ask if there is any general consensus that if a load is listed as safe for a Jacketed bullet if it should also be safe for the same weight lead bullet?

August 21, 2002, 08:44 AM	#6
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	There's safe 'n safe, BlueDuck. Push a jacketed bullet at 1200 fps & you're not even close to the bullet's capability. Do the same with most swagged leads & you'll likely have lead splatters out the bore. I know from experience. I wouldn't say it's not safe tp push swagged lead this fast, but accuracy sucks & the clean-up isn't pretty. A good hard-cast bullet though can be pushed right up there with the best jacketeds, IMO - in handguns anyway. Quick addition/edit - I wouldn't substitute jacketed data with lead data, or visa versa. There's actual data for each freely available - use it.