Help ID a sr mauser

[BoogieMan]

I was given a mauser action today. and I would like to know what I got. Receiver measures 1.295 dia and its approx 7-5/8 between the screws so I assume its a small ring. s/n J 4466 has a distinct R on top of the barrel and J J6 6 in on bottom of receiver just in front of the mag cutout, other markings as shown in pics. Barrel is 21" from face of receiver. No idea of caliber as its not marked and i can get a good bore measurement with calipers. Its pretty well roached with a rattle can refinish that I hit on the wire wheel so I could see marks. I want to build it into something worth shooting.

[James K]

Spanish Model 1916. Original caliber was 7mm Mauser (7x57) but many were rebarrelled or rechambered for other calibers.

Frankly, those are at the low end of the Mauser spectrum in terms of quality and value. If the barrel is good (few are), they are a good rifle for medium game (deer) but the old "lipstick on a pig" saying applies and I don't recommend spending a lot of time or money on one.

Jim

[BoogieMan]

Looking it over it certainly doesnt appear to have the quality of my FN. I am a machinist who wants to do some gunsmithing. This was given to me so I figured I could re-barrel with a eBay barrel and see what I could make it do. If I lap the lugs and give it a tight fit to a new barrel what would be the shortcomings?
I am thinking .243 win but open to suggestions.

[Jim Watson]

How about back to 7x57 or .257 Roberts?
Most sources consider .243 to be an overload for a small ring, especially Spanish.

How is the bore in the existing barrel?
If it is good, you could get plenty of quality time removing the military sights, smoothing the finish, and installing sporting sights. Or a scope if you want to work on the action, drilling and tapping, bolt handle lowering, low scope safety.

[James K]

The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure spec for the 7x57 is 51k psi, while the .243 is 60k. But those Spanish actions are known for being fairly soft, so I would try to use a cartridge in the lower pressure ranges or load to those pressures in order to get a reasonable service life.

Jim

[BoogieMan]

Thanks for the info guys. I will go through the book tonight and see what I come up with. Im thinking small bore (7mm or less) and lower psi.
I read about some of these going off with the 308's.

[James K]

They probably aren't going to "blow up" with a hotter cartridge, but the bolt lugs and lug seats will be subject to excessive battering and that will eventually lead to excess headspace and possible trouble.

Jim

[BoogieMan]

I know this is getting a little off track from the original ID question. It looks like its going to be rebuildable. I need to choose a cartridge. If you had to choose from the following what would it be. Might try whitetail with it but its most likely going to punch paper from 100 to 300 yds.
257 Roberts
7.62x39
7x57 Mauser
250 Savage
Currently I am leaning toward the Savage because it has low pressure and seems like it would group well out to 300yds. I plan to break in with factory ammo then reload whatever its going to shoot from then on.

[Jim Watson]

257 Roberts A good round but poor availability of ammo and brass.
7.62x39 Cheap ammo but calls for modifications to action and bolt.
7x57 Mauser Where it started, hard to beat.
250 Savage A neat little round but very poor availability, people are necking up .22-250 when they can find THAT.

Also consider 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. More popular now than it has been in a long time and well suited to the small ring action.

I would think about 6mm Remington which is so close to 6x57 as to make no difference. But the factory loads are as high pressure as .243 and I would treat it strictly as a reloaded round at 90% of maximum. Brass availability is not good.

[JayPee]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you can spend a mountain of money on that rifle and it won't be worth one cent more than it is right now when you're finished. Some of the worst Mausers ever built in terms of quality of workmanship were the Spanish Mausers. Back in the heyday of sporterizing military rifles, the 50's, 60's, and 70's, even the Spanish '98's (La Caruna) were regarded as being at the bottom of the heap and not worth sporterizing. Their reputation as really crummy Mausers go back even as far as the 1960's.

You have what is basically a weak 1893 Mauser action without even a bolt guide, only two locking lugs turning into a soft receiver, a cock-on-closing bolt, and a striker fall that's a mile long. In order to use it with any of the rounds you mention, you'll need to have the bolt bent for a scope plus having to drill and tap it for mounts, and then you'll need a better trigger and an entirely different safety setup to realize anything like its potential accuracy. By the time you rebarrel, restock, retrigger, resafety, and refinish your rifle, you will have enough money in it to afford a very good if not premium factory rifle, and all you will have is a rebarreled, restocked, refinished crummy Spanish Mauser. Also, often the 1916's have been shot out and the firing pin hole in the bolt needs to be drilled out and shimmed which is a machine shop operation, and only if you can find the threaded shims it takes to do the job. (See if the firing pin has space around its circumference when it is uncocked. If so, big waveoff.) If you should find that the hole has already been shimmed, and it's very visible, you'd be money ahead to hang it on a wall because it's well on its way to being worn out the second time.

Sir, with all respect, I'm 72 years old and I dinked around with Mausers for a lot of years, sporterizing a great number of them. I know this is hard to hear, but again in all respect, I would advise you to save your money and find yourself a good Swede. Your Spanish Mauser is a colossal disappointment looking for a place to happen.

[James K]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I tried to say that, but maybe less bluntly. Unfortunately, some folks on this and other sites get involved in trying to help and forget that taking their advice might not be in the gun owner's best interests. Sure, you can easily spend $500 or $1000 or more making that rifle into a nice looking sporter, but even with full makeup and a new hairdo, the pig is still a pig.

Your first sentence began, "I was given a mauser action today...."

Maybe there was a reason why someone gave it away.

Jim

[JayPee]

Well, I hope I wasn't too blunt. But I'd rather be that than see a fellow walk into a money pit thinking he would have a nice rifle.

Sorry if I offended.

JayPee

[Jim Watson]

I thought "I wanted to make it..." Indicated a DIY project.
I would not pay a gunsmith to work on it.

[jimbob86]

I thought "I wanted to make it..." Indicated a DIY project.

It did.

Looking it over it certainly doesnt appear to have the quality of my FN. I am a machinist who wants to do some gunsmithing. This was given to me so I figured I could re-barrel with a eBay barrel and see what I could make it do. If I lap the lugs and give it a tight fit to a new barrel what would be the shortcomings?

There can't be any better gun out there on for a beginner to learn on, methinks: if he jacks it up, it's no loss at all, as it was given to him. If he makes it shoot, well that's a successful first project. Where's the downside? I'm not seeing it.

What I am seeing is a whole lot of "nattering nabobs of negativity" not reading the OP's posts .... they saw the pix of a cheap old milsurp Spanish Mauser and jump right in and say how it won't be worth any money to put money into it...... folks, there is far more to life than money, especially if we are talking value. When you think about it, they are inventing dollars, millions a day, out of thin air. The same can not be said of these "really crummy Mausers" ...... and the truly rare thing today (and therefore a valuable thing in the future) is the person that has the skills to take something like this collection of substandard gun parts and make it into a usable rifle: such skills may one day be priceless.

To the OP: You, GO, Man! Get yer 'Smith on! ..... and post pics of your results. Have fun and learn somethin'!

... Oh, and I vote for 7x57, the original caliber...... that, or your own x57 wildcat.

[jimbob86]

.243Win is a little hot for the sr mausers ..... and case body taper of the .308 based case won't play well with your magazine ..... 6mm Remington is based on the 7x57 case, as is The Bob .... you'd have to keep the 6Rem downloaded, but the original Bob data was made for weaker actions ......

[jimbob86]

In order to use it with any of the rounds you mention, you'll need to have the bolt bent for a scope

Seriously, Jaypee?

You didn't even look at the pictures, let alone read the posts!

Look again..... and put the readin' glasses on this time....

[HankC1]

I built 3-4 SR mausers into 7.62x39.

To be functional, really the only thing needed is a barrel. Numerich has 7.62x39 SR Mauser barrel and they have it in stock when I checked 2 weeks ago. About $125. Rent a reamer and headspace gauge, cost about $40. The good thing about SR is there is no internal ring, if barrel is hard to remove, just cut an relief cut and you can unscrew the barrel easily. Don't really need to buy a receiver wrench, you can make one with steel angle and muffler clamp. My DIY receiver wrench serves me with half dozen mauser builds (mostly SRs, only 2 LRs), still going strong. Barrel clamp can be home made as well.
Since the x39 case diameter is smaller, you may wish to make a longer extractor, an extractor blank is around $35. Just use the original one still work, but does not eject well.
Will need to do something with the mag box and follower, a 3/4"x3/4" block glued into place at the rear will work and AR15 follower can be modified to work!
Yes, you will need to "bend" the bolt if you want to use scope (unless you want to use a super high scope base.) Another way to do it is drill a hole thru the lug and make an "Steve Wagner" handle.
http://www.gswagner.com/bb/mauboltss...ltssolder.html

Honestly, if it is already converted to 308 (Spanish 1916s), I would leave it the way it is and just shoot reduced load.

Also, if the rifle is a 1916 308, the receiver is about 1/16" short and will need a shim between the barrel stop and receiver face. They shortened the receiver when made the conversion.

[JayPee]

JimBob86, like I said, my post was intended to keep you from going where others have gone and had very bad experiences without a good understanding of what you are getting into. I have publicly apologized for the bluntness of my comments and will publicly reiterate the apology here, and for any improper assumptions I may have made. I wish you the very best with your Mauser.

[jimbob86]

I wish you the very best with your Mauser.

Jaypee, it's not my mauser. It's BoogieMan's ..... and he posted pictures of what he's got ....... and they show a bolt hadle that's already bent. He also stated he's a machinist that wants to get in to gunsmisthing....... not pay someone to do the work .....

He asked what he had, and that was anwered ..... and then asked what he should try to make it into .....

Where's the downside of using what he has (given to him for free, BTW) to learn a little?

[BoogieMan]

No need to bicker fellas. I am thick skinned and dont mind the harsh comments. Some of the best advice I have received wasnt suger coated. I understand what I have and that its not a FN or Swiss etc... Good quality actions are expensive and tbh I think they should be preserved if complete. Without any comments I knew that this was not a quality item to start with, I am a schooled machinist with 20 years in the trade doing everything from driveshafts to parts for the hubble. I want to learn gunsmithing. Havent done that yet.
That out of the way I have made a action wrench that fits my 60t press with a handle that should be good for virtually any action I encounter. I pulled the barrel, bead blasted and have hand worked most of the crappy machining out. I even TIG a couple of the deep tooling marks so that it will look fair when I duracoat it at the end. I plan to true the receiver and lao the bolt this week then reblast it and send it out to be case hardened (vacuum furnace)by my local heat treater. I still havent decided on a caliber but it will be a low pressure round. Really liked the Rem bench rest line, but they dont feed well.



Anybody can buy high end parts and screw them together to get a good rifle. Taking a low quality blank and making it a shooter takes skill that I think I can develop. Kind of like the mark of a good chef isnt what he does with a filet, its what he does with kidney and liver meat.

[jimbob86]

Really liked the Rem bench rest line, but they dont feed well.

Is there a need for them to feed from a magazine at all, I wonder?

Not a concern in that game, IIRC- many of the guns used do not have a magazine, as a solid reciever is more rigid, and therefore more precise.

[BoogieMan]

I bought a Bergara 6.5mm x 8 twist blank to mount up. The rifle will end up being a 6.5 x 55 Mauser. The round offers solid performance, its low pressure, original mauser caliber, PPU brass ammo is cheap to shoot and harvest the cases.

[Scorch]

I have converted or rebarreled many 93 Mausers. No, it is not a money-making proposition; you start out with a $50 action, put $200 worth of parts and $200 of labor into it to turn it into a $100 barreled action. But you can make some fun guns. I have a 93 chambered for 7.62X39, and it never fails to impress other shooters when it shoots cheap garbage Tula ammo into 2" at 100 yds. I have a 95 Mauser in 444 Marlin in the works, and that one will be fun, too. Just accept going in that it is going to be a money hole, and enjoy the ride!

[BoogieMan]

Thanks Scorch- Im not an FFL so I really dont intend to sell anyway. By time im done I will probably have $400 into this not including my time. But it should be a fun shooter and an interesting project. I am already planning my next project. Picked up a 700ADL with rings for $300.