Color case hardening,,rust protection?

PPQ226guy · March 17, 2013, 01:36 AM

Hi All,

i havea question regarding cch... does it provide any greater rust protection than bluing? I am pondering picking up Beretta Stampede at a lgs that has a cch frame (Uberti made, I think) anf was curious. Thanks in advance!

Doc Hoy · March 17, 2013, 05:36 AM

I don't see a lot of difference.

But I think the way to approach the finish on a firearm of the character that I shoot, is that neither the bluing, nor the case hardening is intended to provide prootection.

Clean it thoroughly as quickly after shooting as you can manage. Use oil and/or another surface protectant to protect the finish.

**4V50 Gary** · March 17, 2013, 06:48 AM

The colors can wear off from use. The metal will still be hard though.

woodnbow · March 17, 2013, 12:26 PM

I have a Centaure that has some pitting on the cylinder and barrel, none on the case hardened frame so that would indicate at least some level of rust protection. How much? Who can say... I've seen CCH frames with deep pits as well.

Hawg · March 17, 2013, 12:53 PM

The CCH on Uberti, Pietta and Ruger is fake. Its an acid wash.

Bob Wright · March 17, 2013, 01:31 PM

True for the old Vaquero, not true for Uberti, can't say about Pietta.

The color case hardening on Ubertis is truly a bone charcoal finish. Also on my Rugers done by Doug Turnbull.

The original advertising for the Great Western revolvers stated that the case hardened frame "could not be cut with a file."

Bob Wright

Hawg · March 17, 2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

The color case hardening on Ubertis is truly a bone charcoal finish.

On the 73's it is. AFAIK unless they changed the C&B's are still acid washed. N/M I just noticed he said Uberti Stampede.

Rigmarol · March 18, 2013, 02:30 PM

I have found spots of rust the day after a shoot where I was unable (read that as too lazy) to do more cleaning than a Windex/ammonia flush.

I've done this twice... I promise I will not do it a third time.

Case Hardened or blued... clean your dang guns right away. BP is not forgiving.

Bob Wright · March 18, 2013, 05:43 PM

Stoeger/Uberti still lists their cap and ball 1851 Navy and !860 Army Models as "Case Hardened", not sure about the Walker.

There is a finish called "Original Finish" that is an acid wash. Seems it depends on the importer.

Bob Wright

Hawg · March 18, 2013, 06:40 PM

My Stoeger Uberti nor my Cimarron Uberti had/have a bone/charcoal case hardening. The Stoeger frame was almost white with just a few yellow pastels. The Cimarron has better colors but are very dark.

Shotput79 · March 19, 2013, 01:24 AM

Nice pair Hawg. I like them both.

Bob Wright · March 19, 2013, 09:56 AM

This is my Stoger/Uberti Flat Top .45 Colt:

And my Cimarron Model P .44 Special:

The Flat Top was bought used, so no idea what it looked like when new.

Bob Wright

maillemaker · March 19, 2013, 11:04 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_hardening

Quote:

The resulting case hardened part may show distinct surface discoloration. The steel darkens significantly, and shows a mottled pattern of black, blue and purple, caused by the various compounds formed from impurities in the bone and charcoal. This oxide surface works similarly to bluing, providing a degree of corrosion resistance, as well as an attractive finish. Case coloring refers to this pattern and is commonly encountered as a decorative finish on replica historic firearms.

As has been noted, many "color case hardened" finishes applied to firearms today are fake finishes designed to look like traditional case hardened steel, but are not the result of real case hardening. Many modern firearms are often made from homogenous carbon steel and thus the entire component can be heat treated rather than just a hardened outer surface. This can negate the need for case hardening just the outer layer of the object. In this case, an artificial case hardening finish is applied for a historical appearance.

Steve

CM COOP · March 19, 2013, 11:58 AM

True bone color case hardening, USFA .45 colt (top) .44 special (bottom).

PPQ226guy · March 19, 2013, 03:45 PM

^^^^ those are beautiful.

Bob Wright · March 19, 2013, 04:17 PM

True case hardening leaves the steel an overall grey color, as in the case of files. Charcoal, bone, and leather, and at one time cyanide, was used to impart color.

The process is pretty much the same today, using lower temperatures, so that no surface hardening occurs. The hammers and triggers of S&W revolvers were case hardened, as has been the hammers and triggers of some of my Rugers, to give a longer lasting engagement surface.

I have one Ruger Blackhawk with the hammer and trigger case hardened in 1989, and there is no indication of wear nor change since then.

Bob Wright

March 17, 2013, 01:36 AM	#1
PPQ226guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Alabama Posts: 101	Color case hardening,,rust protection? Hi All, i havea question regarding cch... does it provide any greater rust protection than bluing? I am pondering picking up Beretta Stampede at a lgs that has a cch frame (Uberti made, I think) anf was curious. Thanks in advance!

March 17, 2013, 05:36 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I would say it is slightly less than bluing.... I don't see a lot of difference. But I think the way to approach the finish on a firearm of the character that I shoot, is that neither the bluing, nor the case hardening is intended to provide prootection. Clean it thoroughly as quickly after shooting as you can manage. Use oil and/or another surface protectant to protect the finish. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 17, 2013, 06:48 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	The colors can wear off from use. The metal will still be hard though. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

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March 17, 2013, 12:26 PM	#4
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	I have a Centaure that has some pitting on the cylinder and barrel, none on the case hardened frame so that would indicate at least some level of rust protection. How much? Who can say... I've seen CCH frames with deep pits as well.

March 17, 2013, 12:53 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The CCH on Uberti, Pietta and Ruger is fake. Its an acid wash.

March 17, 2013, 01:31 PM	#6
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	True for the old Vaquero, not true for Uberti, can't say about Pietta. The color case hardening on Ubertis is truly a bone charcoal finish. Also on my Rugers done by Doug Turnbull. The original advertising for the Great Western revolvers stated that the case hardened frame "could not be cut with a file." Bob Wright

March 18, 2013, 02:30 PM	#8
Rigmarol Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 344	I have found spots of rust the day after a shoot where I was unable (read that as too lazy) to do more cleaning than a Windex/ammonia flush. I've done this twice... I promise I will not do it a third time. Case Hardened or blued... clean your dang guns right away. BP is not forgiving.

March 18, 2013, 05:43 PM	#9
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	Stoeger/Uberti still lists their cap and ball 1851 Navy and !860 Army Models as "Case Hardened", not sure about the Walker. There is a finish called "Original Finish" that is an acid wash. Seems it depends on the importer. Bob Wright

March 18, 2013, 06:40 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	My Stoeger Uberti nor my Cimarron Uberti had/have a bone/charcoal case hardening. The Stoeger frame was almost white with just a few yellow pastels. The Cimarron has better colors but are very dark.

March 19, 2013, 01:24 AM	#11
Shotput79 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 186	Nice pair Hawg. I like them both.

March 19, 2013, 09:56 AM	#12
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	This is my Stoger/Uberti Flat Top .45 Colt: And my Cimarron Model P .44 Special: The Flat Top was bought used, so no idea what it looked like when new. Bob Wright

March 19, 2013, 03:45 PM	#15
PPQ226guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Alabama Posts: 101	^^^^ those are beautiful.

March 19, 2013, 04:17 PM	#16
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	True case hardening leaves the steel an overall grey color, as in the case of files. Charcoal, bone, and leather, and at one time cyanide, was used to impart color. The process is pretty much the same today, using lower temperatures, so that no surface hardening occurs. The hammers and triggers of S&W revolvers were case hardened, as has been the hammers and triggers of some of my Rugers, to give a longer lasting engagement surface. I have one Ruger Blackhawk with the hammer and trigger case hardened in 1989, and there is no indication of wear nor change since then. Bob Wright