What does "unfired" mean to you?

[JayCee]

In the vein of the current (revived) thread on the meaning of the term "NIB", I'd like to understand what the generally accepted meaning of "unfired" is. To me, "unfired" means that the gun hasn't been fired since it left the factory. I see a number of posts in which the author states that he bought an "unfired" gun from an individual or dealer. How does one actually know that it's unfired? Does "unfired" mean that it has the appearance of never being fired, or does it mean literally that it hasn't been fired since it left the factory? If a gun, particularly a stainless steel gun, has been well taken care of, it can be thoroughly cleaned to the point that it would take some sort of microscopic analysis to determine whether a cartridge had actually been chambered and fired.

So, does "unfired" mean literally that it has never been fired outside the factory, or is it a term of art used to describe a firearm that is so clean it APPEARS never to have been fired?

And, if "unfired" has the literal meaning, how does one know for sure that a gun hasn't been fired unless it's bought NIB from a dealer?

[stmcelroy]

Not fired by anybody outside of the factory or importer.

[tekarra]

As stmcelroy says.

[Aguila Blanca]

Agreed. Words are supposed to have meaning. Once a firearm has been fired outside of the factory, even one round, it is not and cannot legitimately be called "unfired."

[jmr40]

I see a number of posts in which the author states that he bought an "unfired" gun from an individual or dealer. How does one actually know that it's unfired?

Other than taking someone's word for it, it may be impossible to say for sure. But if the gun is in such condition that it is impossible to determine if a few shots have been fired then it probably does not matter. It had at least 1, and maybe 3-4 shots through it before it left the factory. I don't see 3-4 more really affecting anything. At least to me.

If I bought it in good faith from someone who seemed reputable who claimed it were unfired, I'd sell it and claim the same if I had never fired it.

But realistically, this is not a concern for me. I don't have any unfired guns and don't plan to buy any that will remain unfired.

[osbornk]

It doesn't matter. Nearly every one I have came with a shot casing to show it worked. I think Henry shoots each rifle 10 times.

[lee n. field]

What does "unfired" mean to you?

No one's shot it, outside whatever the manufacturer may do before it leaves the factory.

The owner may have cleaned it, disassembled it, lubed it, loaded it, carried it, modified it, then left it somewhere where it started to rust. It could have dried blood on it. It could have the owner's name buzz-penned onto the frame. And it still might be "unfired".

[lamarw]

Agree with the first response. I bought a new in the box S&W AR 15 a couple of weeks ago. The LGS had a stack on the floor with about ten boxes. He ask which one I wanted and I took the third from the top. We completed the paperwork and he handed me the box. It was taped closed apparently by the factory. I cut the tape and opened the box in the store just to make sure it was all there.

I got it home and cleaned the rifle. I got a good amount of firing residue out of the weapon. It took about six patches through the bore before a clean one. A sure indication it had been fired at the factory as one would expect.

[RickB]

I have seen a half-dozen 1911s for sale that were unfired, but the original owner had decided to field-strip the gun, and then applied an "idiot scratch" to the frame by running the slide stop hard against the frame while rotating the latter into alignment with the take-down notch.
Not being able to stand a gun that had been damaged before even being fired, they put the gun up for sale.
The guns are unfired, but not what you would want in what is supposed to be an essentially new gun.

[Pathfinder45]

Unfired means it has never been fired. It means it has never been proof-fired and will have no proofmarks on it. It means you should never, ever, see it, unless you work in the factory that made it. It means it's still in the factory and that if it doesn't pass factory standards, it will be reworked until it does, and if it can't pass it will be scrapped. The term, "Unfired", is only appropriate inside the factory. Everyone else needs to find other words to use that are more truthful. Any firearms manufacturer that lets their product go unproofed is negligent.

On the other hand, we live in an age where nothing can legally be taken literally, and what one says can be utterly, intentionally, deceptive while being legally true at the same time, as thus: "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of ****** relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
I am currently the custodian of a family heirloom: It's a Colt Woodsman, purchased brand new by my parents in 1953 from the Seward General Hardware store in the Territory of Alaska, where they homesteaded after my Dad came back from the Pacific War. The pistol was NIB. I still have the box. Inside the box is the signed factory target. Not only would they not allow it out of the factory without being fired, but it had to meet accuracy standards as well, lest they sell a product that might shame them when compared with their competitors products. After all, S. & W., made a phenomenally accurate K-22 revolver; musn't embarrass ourselves with a lesser product, now....

NIB, means exactly that. "Like NIB", should be almost the same thing, but the seller is honestly admitting it's been used, though hardly at all.
"Unfired",? What? Were you born yesterday? Just sayin'.......

[Bill DeShivs]

Pathfinder is correct.
And, if the factory fired the gun-you could fire it 50 more times, clean it, shoot 2-3 more rounds through it-and no one would be able to tell any different.

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder45

The term, "Unfired", is only appropriate inside the factory. Everyone else needs to find other words to use that are more truthful.

Exactly. There's really no such thing as an "unfired" gun, at least when you're talking about commercially manufactured firearms that are sold to the public. But the term is bandied around all the time. You see it on Gunbroker and you hear it at gunshows. You read on TFL about someone buying an "unfired" gun or finding one for sale at a local gun shop. "Unfired since it left the factory" is OK, if the seller is being truthful, but "unfired" without further qualification is meaningless and misleading.

In reality, there's no practical way of determining that a gun hasn't been fired since it left the factory.

In my opinion, it's time to quit using "unfired" as a descriptor of the condition of a firearm.

[TXAZ]

Un-tested= never tested.

Un-(re)touched picture= original, never altered.

Un-fired= never fired.
The only ambiguity is is that pre or post factory.

[Gunfixr]

There you have it.
You cannot buy an unfired gun, unless perhaps it was stolen from the factory before it could be proofed.

"NIB" is exactly that. Just as it came from the factory. Not fired since leaving the factory. Not taken out and finger f&$#ed by 25 people, and the action worked 200 times, wearing shiny spots on parts. If it was in plastic in the box, it should still be in plastic, or, if on display out of plastic, the plastic had better be there. All papers that would have been in the box present and accounted for.



Glock fires theirs twice, mounted in a fixture, with a brass catcher to catch the empties, so one can be put in the box.

[CUBAN REDNECK]

Not fired once it left the factory...

[MikeRussell]

what it means to me is someone is trying to sell a used firearm at full/near full new gun price.

[PzGren]

What Mike Russell said above.

Unfired = never fired. A more precise descrition is easy enough to find.

Guns that were manufactured in Germany, Austria, and other countries belonging to C.I.P. have proofed the guns with two rounds that produce 30% more pressure for handguns. I have been inside the SIG Sauer factory in Eckernförde, they have the government proof house in their basement and have seen it being done.

[RodTheWrench]

Unfired is a sneaky way of trying to make the gun seem New when it's either been handled, carried or both - just not actually fired since purchased New.

It's either NIB, Like New, excellent or something less. Unfired is unnecessary.

[GunLuvr01]

I 100% agree with Gunfixr, many so called NIB firearms are mistreated and show signs of wear before they leave the store.

[CajunBass]

Unfired since leaving the factory. While technically it might have been test fired, unless one is really splitting hairs, those are allowed for.

I remember my grandfather telling a story about buying a new shotgun during the war. New guns were price control items and rationed IIRC. There was a new shotgun at the store he wanted, but he didn't have a ration stamp to get one. The dealer took the gun outside and fired two shots, came back and said, "Now it's a used gun." Which I gathered from the story weren't subject to rationing and could be bought and sold freely. True story? I got no idea. He's long dead and I can't ask him about it.

That always seemed like a reasonable standard to me. More than two rounds, outside the factory, and it's a used gun.

[Skans]

I can look at most guns and determine whether they've been fired before or not, unless they have been expertly refinished. When I say "fired" I mean someone putting at least 20 rounds through it. How many people buy a gun and only put 1 or two rounds through it? If we are talking about 1 or two rounds and I can't tell if it's been fired, then I'm not worrying about it.

Anyway, on an exceptionally clean semi-auto that is supposedly NIB, I look at the barrel, particularly where the barrel/slide lock-up. I look at the hammer face, the firing pin. Most new guns will show signs of use in these areas even after a few rounds.

On revolvers, I pay more attention to the hammer face, firing pin, cylinder face, cylinder walls, and forcing cone.

[4V50 Gary]

To me it means unfired since factory proofing.

[22-rimfire]

Unfired = Unfired (since leaving the factory) Words matter.

You will see guns advertised as "as-new" which generally means it has been shot or believed to have been shot but there is no obvious indicators that it has been fired. I like the "as-new" or "as-new in original box" designation.

NIB is generally believed to be unfired. And "As-NIB" is a honest characterization if the seller believes a gun has been fired but still appears as new.

I have purchased new revolvers (blue finish) with a turn line, but I believe that was done at the dealer and it was unfired. But it is not a NIB gun at that point. Doesn't really matter if you plan on shooting it to me. My 41 mag M57 Mountain Gun had a cylinder turn line when I bought it.

[chip86]

Unfired simply means anyone other than the factory, the end.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 22-rimfire

I have purchased new revolvers (blue finish) with a turn line, but I believe that was done at the dealer and it was unfired. But it is not a NIB gun at that point.

If it has not been previously sold at retail, it IS still a new gun at that point. In the automotive world, it's not unusual for people who play with classic cars to find thirty, forty, and fifty year old parts in some small dealer's back room and grab them for sale at flea markets (Carlisle being probably the largest and best known). The boxes are almost certainly battered, maybe even gnawed on by mice or missing entirely, but the parts have never been sold. They are new parts, even if they're fifty years old. If advertised in print or on-line, they are typically listed as "new old stock."

Nothing about handling a new gun in the shop makes the gun not new. An honest seller might describe a gun with a turn ring as "shopworn" (which is what it is), but it's still new if it hasn't been previously sold.

I once bought a Colt 1911 that I know the FFL had had on his shelf for about five years. It had been handled, had gone on display for periods and then kept in the safe for awhile, then put back on display, yada yada. The slide had a few scratches and finger marks, and the receiver had the idiot scratch. But it had never been sold, and it had never been fired (since leaving the factory). If it wasn't "new, unfired," what was it? Used, unfired? Doesn't compute -- it hadn't been used, it wasn't pre-owned, and at five years IMHO it wasn't really "old." The model was still in Colt's catalog as a current model.