Can anyone ID this rifle?

Rex Feral · October 15, 2000, 12:38 PM

[This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited October 16, 2000).]

James K · October 15, 2000, 04:28 PM

It is a Japanese Type I (that is "I" for Italy, not a 1) rifle. These were made in Italy by Beretta (PB = Pietro Beretta) and others for Japan. They have a Mannlicher-Carcano type action with a Mauser type magazine. The butt stock is in two pieces, like other Japanese rifles, but unlike them it does not have the chrysanthemum on the receiver.

These are not especially rare (about 60,000 were made) but are uncommon in good condition.

Caliber is 6.5 Japanese, and they use the standard Japanese rifle clip.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · October 15, 2000, 04:31 PM

At first I thought it was a Swedish M96 Mauser, but the bolt handle is ahead of the rear receiver bridge. That knocked out any bolt action Mauser I'm aware of.

I considered the Italian Carcanos, but the magazine well appears to be flush with the stock. About the only gun which is left is the Japanese 6.5 mm Type "I" rifle which features a Mannlicher-Carcano type action combined with the flush magazine of the Mauser. These rifles were made in Italy for Japan and features a two piece stock with the lower half of the butt and pistol grip being glued and pinned to the upper half of the stock.

Rex Feral · October 15, 2000, 04:33 PM

Thanks Jim! I noticed the 2 piece stock and some of the metal parts had a painted finish, so I was thinking Japanese right away, but when I saw the proof marks I was stumped.

Rex Feral · October 15, 2000, 04:35 PM

Thank you as well Gary, I know the pictures are a little dark, and the details are hard to make out. The magazine is flush with the bottom of the stock.

James K · October 16, 2000, 08:30 PM

A little more information on the Type I. The rifles were made in 1938-1939 under an agreement between the government of Japan and its Axis ally, Italy. It is not clear why these were bought, since Japanese rifle production appears to have been adequate at the time, even for Japan's expanding military.

Some information indicates they were made for the Japanese Navy, which had a need for rifles (the so-called "Japanese Imperial Marines" were really Navy landing parties - Japan never had a Marine Corps as we understand the term). Further, the Navy would not be as inconvenienced by a non-standard rifle as the Army would, with its greater numbers.

In addition to Beretta, Type I rifles were made by the Regia Sezione Fabbrica D'Armi Esercito (RSFAE - Royal Army Arms Factory Department), and Fabbrica Nazionale D'Armi Brescia (FNA). The Regia Fabbrica D'Armi (Royal Arms Factory) at Terni did the design work and made the barrels.

HTH

Jim

Rex Feral · October 16, 2000, 09:56 PM

Thanks for the additional info Jim. Judging by the cosmoline like goop, and the overall condition of the rifle, I'd say this one didn't get issued.

October 15, 2000, 12:38 PM	#1
Rex Feral Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 471	[This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited October 16, 2000).]

October 15, 2000, 04:28 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is a Japanese Type I (that is "I" for Italy, not a 1) rifle. These were made in Italy by Beretta (PB = Pietro Beretta) and others for Japan. They have a Mannlicher-Carcano type action with a Mauser type magazine. The butt stock is in two pieces, like other Japanese rifles, but unlike them it does not have the chrysanthemum on the receiver. These are not especially rare (about 60,000 were made) but are uncommon in good condition. Caliber is 6.5 Japanese, and they use the standard Japanese rifle clip. Jim

October 15, 2000, 04:31 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	At first I thought it was a Swedish M96 Mauser, but the bolt handle is ahead of the rear receiver bridge. That knocked out any bolt action Mauser I'm aware of. I considered the Italian Carcanos, but the magazine well appears to be flush with the stock. About the only gun which is left is the Japanese 6.5 mm Type "I" rifle which features a Mannlicher-Carcano type action combined with the flush magazine of the Mauser. These rifles were made in Italy for Japan and features a two piece stock with the lower half of the butt and pistol grip being glued and pinned to the upper half of the stock.

October 15, 2000, 04:33 PM	#4
Rex Feral Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 471	Thanks Jim! I noticed the 2 piece stock and some of the metal parts had a painted finish, so I was thinking Japanese right away, but when I saw the proof marks I was stumped.

October 15, 2000, 04:35 PM	#5
Rex Feral Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 471	Thank you as well Gary, I know the pictures are a little dark, and the details are hard to make out. The magazine is flush with the bottom of the stock.

October 16, 2000, 08:30 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A little more information on the Type I. The rifles were made in 1938-1939 under an agreement between the government of Japan and its Axis ally, Italy. It is not clear why these were bought, since Japanese rifle production appears to have been adequate at the time, even for Japan's expanding military. Some information indicates they were made for the Japanese Navy, which had a need for rifles (the so-called "Japanese Imperial Marines" were really Navy landing parties - Japan never had a Marine Corps as we understand the term). Further, the Navy would not be as inconvenienced by a non-standard rifle as the Army would, with its greater numbers. In addition to Beretta, Type I rifles were made by the Regia Sezione Fabbrica D'Armi Esercito (RSFAE - Royal Army Arms Factory Department), and Fabbrica Nazionale D'Armi Brescia (FNA). The Regia Fabbrica D'Armi (Royal Arms Factory) at Terni did the design work and made the barrels. HTH Jim

October 16, 2000, 09:56 PM	#7
Rex Feral Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 471	Thanks for the additional info Jim. Judging by the cosmoline like goop, and the overall condition of the rifle, I'd say this one didn't get issued.