Riot defense senario

[OuTcAsT]

Doug,

(respectfully) I did read the original post, and understand the tactical situation, Major riot, LEOs otherwise occupied, etc.

My point is this, IF this plays out as written, then your only LEGAL option is to hunker down in YOUR home and protect yourself and family.

You have NO legal right to organize a "Posse" and try and protect your neighborhood. nor do you have a legal right to camp out on the roof and start shooting into a mob just because they passed the line in the sand in your yard (some states may vary)

Yes I have read the constitution, yes I know what the 2nd ammendment says, that does not mean that in the end you will prevail in court.

and please do not give me the standard "Judged by 12/Carried by 6 answer.

[Doug.38PR]

Well, I think a riot is an unusual circumstance that leaves people open to gather together in defense of their homes as a whole. I don't think a court would convict us or (minus self righteous DAs etc. that just don't like people having guns) even bring us to trail.

Those Korean guys during the RK riots in LA were within their rights to do what they did.

I think everyone would understand that there is no time to go through formal paperwork, deputizing oaths etc. involved in making a posse and all and drawing boundarylines at property and house.

I'm not even sure what I am talking about is a posse (law enforcement appointed officers out to make arrest and chase criminals). It's just some men around the neighborhood on the lookout for multiple intruders or a mob.

It's all about common sense. If your neighborhood is attacked and your neighbors should respond.

Bottling up yourself in your house is not the best tactical solution in my opinion. They can burn the house down around you or overwhelm you as a mob if you are just an individual in a house.

At least one LEO Blackwater OPS seems to agree by and large with me as do many other posters.

If nothing else, I don't think police would have much to say about the matter since they don't have the means to break us up...and if they did, like I said we wouldn't need to be doing what we were doing.


If you REEEALLY want to get technical, since most of your problem is with people walking around openly with guns, I suppose you could keep rifles and shotguns inside the vehicles at the barricade until needed by men stationed at the barricade and just walk up and down the street checking each other's houses with concealed handguns. Technically that is within the law in normal everyday circumstances in most states (minus barricades). Men stationed on the roof with rifles can't be seen by anyone, and are on their property with the guns hidden on the roof.



In addition, I think, as far as family safety goes, it would be prudent to put all familys up in one house at the center of the street or neighborhood farthest away from where a confrontation with rioters might take place.

[Capt. Charlie]

You have NO legal right to organize a "Posse" and try and protect your neighborhood. nor do you have a legal right to camp out on the roof and start shooting into a mob just because they passed the line in the sand in your yard (some states may vary)

As a police officer, outcast, I have to agree with you, but Doug has a point too. No "judged by 12" here, but I will give you a "desperate times call for desperate measures".

In the mid-60's here, we had a.... well, I wouldn't call it an all-out riot; let's call it a "march of very angry, determined people". They proved that they had destruction on their minds. They marched through town until they got to an area we call the South End. Entry to this area is restricted to a tactically important underpass. Now in the 60's, this area was strongly segregated as a whites only area. In fact, it was a redneck area with a whole lot of deer hunters .

The "marchers" tried to enter the South End through the underpass, only to be met by a solid line of people slamming bolts on deer rifles and slug guns. There were also rifles on numerous rooftops.

Approximately 25 people stopped over several hundred in their tracks.

There were no shots fired, no one was injured, and no arrests were made (among the South Enders).

A show of force can be a powerful weapon.

[Blackwater OPS]

The area is having a major riot. The police are tied up with that.

Exactly. The swat team is busy, believe me.

You have NO legal right to organize a "Posse" and try and protect your neighborhood. nor do you have a legal right to camp out on the roof and start shooting into a mob just because they passed the line in the sand in your yard (some states may vary)

Well, I only know the law in a few states but- CA Penal Code
197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in
any of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person,
against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or
surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends
and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter
the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any
person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a
wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such
person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to
commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent
danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the
person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was
committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and
means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in
lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving
the peace.

I would hope few warning shots would be enough to make a group of rioters consider taking a different route, or even go home. If not, I will use whatever force is required to defend my life and that of anyone in my home.

Look at pictures and video from the RK riots here in 92' you will see MANY people standing on roofs with guns, hmm no swat teams though, guess they had other concerns. In the aftermath of the riot shootings will be investigated and you may have to defend your actions in court, but the law is clear.

[threegun]

I know of no law against organizing law abiding civilians to protect there homes. The better organized and coordinated they are the safer they will be. If you can do it.........do it.

[The British Soldier]

I would 'go silent' and make my house look like it was empty, but defend the stronghold upstairs. If the rioters do make entry to loot, etc; I would give them the ground floor as a 'freebie' (insurance can replace anything).

The stairs would be the choke point and that's where I would defend. Many stairs have a 90 degree turn in them, so you would be able to be in cover until they are part way up and then challenge and engage immediately.

Even with a pistol I think you would be in a strong position to stop a charge of several rioters; yet once they see the first few people go down I'm sure that their zeal would erode and they would want to bail out. If not, keep on shooting them.

As several posts indicated, you are defending not only yourself but your home and family; no jury would send you down for defending yourself, let alone your family.

I wouldn't even imagine that one would need a large volume of ammunition, as long as you are cool and calm and make each double tap count.

I'm somewhat relieved that it shouldn't happen to any of us too often, if ever; but a good mental exercise in defending one's 'castle'. Unfortunately here in England my response to an intruder into my home would be courtesy of a 4-cell maglite and a lot of aggression behind it!

[Mikeyboy]

+1 Brit...I still think the best house to buy is a 2 story with the bedrooms upstairs. Easy to defend.

[threegun]

until they set the first floor on fire.

[Dan M.]

Or shoot through the ceiling.

[Doug.38PR]

Anyone see the movie Gangs of New York? Not something I highly recommend, but remember the scene when the riots were breaking out. Had a Yankee businessman sitting down with his family and the mob broke into the front door. He grabbed two pistols and barely got off around three or four rounds as they were rushing in the door before they overwhelmed him. Granted it's a movie, but it is an illustration of why lone defense in a house is not the best tactic.
That's my opinion though....on the other hand, I imagine those who advocate this position won't be sitting down for supper when the mob breaks in, you will have your rifles and scatterguns aimed out the windows before they get to you house.
On the other hand, if you fortify yourself and your family in a single house alone, they are more exposed to bullets flying. In my view, it would be better to set up defenses down the street with the strength of neighbors behind you and additional guns keeping familys away from the confrontation.

[threegun]

Doug, I would prefer to remain mobile. Fixed positions offer the safety of superior cover however the lack of mobility and visuals make you a sitting duck once the badguys know your position. You are correct, it would be better to have the neighbors help.

[Bender711]

Just thought of something. If the roit is comming towards you house, just get some fake blood and pour it around your door (and some drag marks), that ought to scare a few people away, o yea and shoot your door a couple of times.

[Doug.38PR]

Another thought occured to me the other day: I emphasized keeping in contact with the police dispatcher on a regular basis throughout your setup checking in making sure they know you are fortified and where you are. Well it might not be a bad idea also to dress a certain way to make you and your neighbors identifiable to police and their helicopters patroling the area. Something like wearing Orange hunting jackets or something that makes you look distinct from rioters.

[OuTcAsT]

You Know...You are exactly right, definately would not want anyone to confuse your armed "citizens" with the rabble. FUBU T-shirts would definately be a NO-NO.

Since you are organizing a militia, why not get some uniforms that look like the LEOs or Military?

Be sure to pin your CCW Badge on as well

[Edward429451]

Interesting thread. I like the run silent run deep suggestion. Nobody home.

30 minutes you say? Got any idea how many loopholes can be cut with a cordless sawzall in 30 minutes? ;>)

If you don't already know your neighbors...go say hey. Even a passing relationship before shtf is good. You can't wait until a mob is 4 blocks away to go knock on their door (unless they KNOW YOU).

[atlctyslkr]

Aren't rioters a form of an improptu milita? They just don't have cool hunting vests and caps like Doug's team

[threegun]

We have a potential riot brewing here in Florida again. Seems that some white juvenile boot camp employees ruffed up a black inmate and unfortunately he died. Originally his death was ruled a result of sickle cell disease. Now after a second autopsy, sickle cell was ruled out as the cause of death. The NAACP,Rainbow Push, and other groups are demanding that the officers be put up on murder charges. Problem is the exact cause of death isn't known and the da has said that manslaughter is the best that they could go after IF they decide to charge anyone. The blacks have vowed to protest if they aren't charged with the boys murder. From past expierience there will be rioting if the guys aren't charge and convicted.

My job borders potential riot zones so I have desided that from now until things are back to normal, to take one of my AR-15's to work with me along with several mags. Plus I might be on call at work if a riot does break out because we are licensed FFL dealers and carry hundreds of guns that get targeted by rioters. My boss will hire an off duty LEO if availible and myself and the other guys will keep them company.

[OuTcAsT]

You Might consider sending some PM's to certain folks on this thread, they seem very willing to organize a good ole' shoot-em-up posse to protect your "property"

[riverrat66]

Seems that some white juvenile boot camp employees ruffed up a black inmate and unfortunately he died.

It's a little off topic but I saw that on the news and from what I saw those thugs, err, I mean camp employees should go to jail! That kid was like only 12 years old or something like that and it took all those big huge guards to subdue him. Yep, those guards are real bad as*es when it comes to kids aren't they? Send them to prison and we'll see how tough they really are.

[Sulaco2]

Once was enough Outcast!!!

[threegun]

Lock em up & throw away the key!

Agreed. Unfortunatly they will either skate or only get manslaughter. If it can be proved that it was the roughing up that killed him.