The new Ruger Guide Gun

[LockedBreech]

Did a search and I couldn't find a thread on this already. I know there is a discussion of the new finish version of the Gunsite, but I think this is a completely different rifle.

Ruger has released a compact bolt gun similar to the Gunsite that is chambered in heavier calibers for guide gun service. Has a muzzle brake, adjustable buttpad, etc.

It's a cool-looking gun, but how fast could you cycle a bolt in the intense, close-quarters circumstances a guide gun would be used in? Haven't all guide guns been lever-action previously? Maybe not, I'm pretty ignorant about rifles.

Here's the gun:

http://www.ruger.com/products/guideGun/models.html

[Scorch]

Ruger has released a compact bolt gun similar to the Gunsite that is chambered in heavier calibers for guide gun service

It's just another version of the M77, not the Gunsite. Note that there is no single-stack detachable magazine, just the standard box magazine.

Haven't all guide guns been lever-action previously?

No. Typically a guide gun is a fast-handling, compact, close-range stopper. Professional hunters world-wide have used doubles and bolt actions for the better part of a century, but we here in the USA often think of guides in Alaska or the North Woods, and many guides there do indeed use a lever action, but not all. Remington came out with the model 673 about 10 years back, their bolt action version of a guide gun, even called it a guide rifle. No offense to the Marlin 1895 fans here, but a guide gun does not have to be a lever action.

how fast could you cycle a bolt in the intense, close-quarters circumstances a guide gun would be used in?

The standard for military firearms for almost a century was the bolt action repeater. A trained shooter can cycle and fire a bolt action almost as fast as an autoloader because the bolt is cycled during recoil recovery. I am no pro but have fired two chargers of ammo (10 rounds) from a Mauser 98 in under a minute, that is about 5 seconds per aimed shot with about 10 seconds left to reload. You can go to virtually any vintage military rifle match and see this repeated over and over. Besides, you only need to connect with one well-placed round to stop even the most determined charge. I know one person who used to guide in AK, and he used a 375 H&H bolt action.

[LockedBreech]

Thanks Scorch! I love the stuff I learn around here.

[TheBear]

Its a nice idea for everybody who wants a compact bolt action rifle in a magnum caliber. I would like one in 375H&H though...

[LockedBreech]

Originally Posted by TheBear

Its a nice idea for everybody who wants a compact bolt action rifle in a magnum caliber. I would like one in 375H&H though...

That's EXACTLY what I thought when I saw .375 Ruger - why not H&H?!

[Auto426]

Basically they took the idea of the Compact Magnum and Alaskan and morphed them into a new line. What most people liked about those two rifles was the 20" barrel with iron sights. I love my Ruger Compact Magnum. If I didn't have it I'd probably pick up one of these.

Ye. They also have become big fans of compensators and flash hiders it seems.

That's EXACTLY what I thought when I saw .375 Ruger - why not H&H?!

I believe that's because Ruger doesn't feel like coming out with a magnum length action. Even their African series of rifles use a standard length action.

[reynolds357]

I retired my h&h for a 375 Ruger. I did not care about compact, but losing that inch of bolt travel sure is nice.
The thing I dont like about this guide rifle is the muzzle brake. 99% of the time a guide gun will be shot in a situation where you are not wearing ear protection. Muzzle brake and no hearing protection is a terrible idea.

[LockedBreech]

I guess my main problem with .375 Ruger is an inherent distrust of manufacturer specific cartridges. I don't want to buy a rifle and have it turn out to be the next .45 GAP.

[natman]

300 RCM
20" barrel
Muzzle Brake

That puppy is going to be LOUD.

It hits closer to the mark of its intended use than the Ruger "scout rifle" does. An 8.5 lb 375 makes a lot more sense than a 8 lb "lightweight" 308.

I'd want one in 458. Without the brake.

[TheBear]

I don't want to buy a rifle and have it turn out to be the next .45 GAP.

i think .45gap is a pretty useless cartridge, but for people who like it, whats the problem? Ammo is produced and available, so are reloading components. My brother has a glock37, he never had any issues with getting ammo, hes even thinking about buying a G39 for carrying.

yep, that muzzle break was a stupid idea, im pretty sure they just added it for the look...

[oneoldsap]

I would think the brake would be a good thing on th .338s and the .375 ! That's a little gun for those cals. .

[LockedBreech]

Originally Posted by TheBear

i think .45gap is a pretty useless cartridge, but for people who like it, whats the problem? Ammo is produced and available, so are reloading components. My brother has a glock37, he never had any issues with getting ammo, hes even thinking about buying a G39 for carrying.

yep, that muzzle break was a stupid idea, im pretty sure they just added it for the look...

Ammo availability is my sole concern really.

Though I suppose if I bought a die and a whole ton of bullets and brass that would cease be an issue.

[reynolds357]

You would not even have to buy a ton of bullets. .375 bullets are not going anywhere regardless of what happens to .375 Ruger. Thats assuming Obama does not decide the are A.P. or some other liberal nonsense.

[bk42261]

Speaking of liberal nonsense, this rifle has one or more "assalt rifle" characteristics-an EVIL MUZZLE BREAK!

[LockedBreech]

Originally Posted by bk42261

Speaking of liberal nonsense, this rifle has one or more "assalt rifle" characteristics-an EVIL MUZZLE BREAK!

That really does highlight the absurdity of it. This gun couldn't be more 'sporting purposes'

[ruger357w]

Nice looking rifle for sure. I'm Just wishing right now that they offered it in a 308 win. I don't care for the gunsite scout rifle. I dont need a big magazine while hunting.

[Scorch]

I guess my main problem with .375 Ruger is an inherent distrust of manufacturer specific cartridges.

Oh, yeah! Like those useless 300 Winchester Magnums. Why didn't they just stick with a 300 H&H Magnum? Or a 7mm Remington Magnum? Or a 375 H&H? Oh, yeah! Those are manufacturer specific cartridge, too!

At one time, most of what we call "standard cartridges" were, in fact, manufacturer-specific cartridges. Whether a cartridge sticks around and "makes it" is often a matter of how well they are marketed and promoted, not how well they perform. Case in point: 280 Remington, as opposed to the 270 Winchester. Performance of the two is pretty close to the same, but the 270 had a well-paid, well-spoken, well-respected spokesman that claimed it would do anything from ground squirrels on up to elephants. The 280 had a spokesman who was well-respected as a technical expert, but who had trouble expressing it. There are many other examples: 6mm Remington vs 243 Winchester, SAUM cartridges vs WSM cartridges, 300 Savage vs 308 Winchester, etc, etc.

this rifle has one or more "assalt rifle" characteristics-an EVIL MUZZLE BREAK!

Muzzle brakes are not evil, flash suppressors are. In CA, flash suppressors are banned, muzzle brakes are not. Go figure!

[oneoldsap]

Not chambering this rifle in .308 Win. , makes no sence to me , an oversight maybe ? I' bet the average Comrade Californian couldn't tell the difference between a flash supressor and a muzzle brake , if their life depended on it !

[jmr40]

The rifle weighs 8+ lbs before optics. That might work for the magnum rounds, but unnecessary for either 308 or 30-06. I'd be interested in one in 30-06 if they can find a way to lose a pound, a 308 wouldn't be bad at 1.5 lbs less weight. The Marlin 45-70 weighs 7-7-1/4 depending on barrel length, just about where the Ruger should be. A hot loaded 45-70 has more recoil than one of the 375 mags so there isn't any need for the extra weight.

When you get into rifle calibers 308 and larger you can get off aimed repeat shots just as fast with a bolt gun as a lever. This has potential.

[BigJerm79]

interlock-As I've seen it written many times, the .308 is a great round in a short/brush/scout rifle platform. The rifle I hunt with is my friend's father's M77 w/ factory 24" bull barrel. His thought at the time of ordering was that he needed a 24" tube to wring the most out of the .308. With today's factory loads, it's my understanding that this is NOT the case and performance can be/is great from shorter rifle. Enter Ruger's Gunsite Scout.

oneoldsap-I'm assuming the existence of the Scout is the reason we're not seeing it in the Guide model?? Who knows. Also interesting is Californians NOT CA politicians being bashed. You think I, or any of the MANY other fellow gun-loving Californians, agree with any of that bullcrap? I certainly don't, but I have personal reasons for staying here. I'm growing a little weary of being punished for that. And yes, I know the difference between a break and flash suppressor. Btw, your post didn't offend me, per se, but reminded me of the all the killer deals I recently found on GB that say "WILL NOT SHIP TO CA" or some other dramatic b.s.

J

[reynolds357]

Interlock, I agree. I do not like the .308 Winchester. I have two of them. One was bought just to say I have a .308 and the other was bought to build a custom on the action. There is nothing wrong with the .308, but there is not enough "right" about it to justify the amount of sales it enjoys. Its OK on accuracy, but not extremely accurate. Its not flat. I cant tell the difference in recoil between my .308 heavy barrel with brake and my heavy barrel .300 Win mag with brake. The .300 Win mag will do everything the .308 does except it does it faster and flatter. The win mag is more accurate at 600 and 1000. I really dont care too much about 100 and 200 because thats what the .30BR and th 6PPC are for. I can think of at least 50 chamberings I would rather have in a guide gun than .308 Win.

[tomrkba]

I don't care for the gunsite scout rifle. I dont need a big magazine while hunting.

Then use a flush magazine.

[oneoldsap]

I'm sorry BigJerm , I was refering to the majority of Californians ! Which I'm assuming is the gun haters , since they are in power , and have been for some time . You know , the people that send Fienstien and Pelosi to Washington . If the shoe doesn't fit , don't wear it ! I do ship to CA , it's really not that big a hassle ! Interlock , the .308 Win . is just the most popular .30 Cal. round on the planet . If someone introduces a new bolt action centerfire rifle , and doesn't chamber it in .308 Win. They've already cut their sales in half , IMO !

[BigJerm79]

No apology necessary oldsap! I don't wear that shoe...lol. And believe me, as you can imagine, I am literally surrounded by the Feinstein/Pelosi/Ed Lee supporters and it angers me to no end. This state has it's proverbial head WAYYYY up it's arse. But again, it just brought me back to my previous night of cruising GB thinking "AWESOME. Can't get the semi-auto rifles I want. Can't get certain 1911's I want. And now I can't get a sweet, used GD Remington Model 7, 700 BDL, 870 Wingmaster, Marlin 336, etc., etc. because no one wants to ship to CA???? ***!!!!!!!!!!" I really feel like I belong somewhere else. Vermont or New Hampshire to name a couple Yay obligations!

Back to the .308 & this guide gun. I really hope that it doesn't go away because it lacks the ol' standby in its lineup. Again, I think Ruger thinks they filled that niche with the Scout. I dig that Ruger continues to come out with new stuff. Even if it's just new iterations of old/existing platforms. They're keeping it going!

J

[Doc TH]

Re. rate of fire, it depends greatly on the skill of the shooter. I believe that a few years ago the Americna Rifleman did an experiment including experienced and casual shooters comparing SA, pump, lever and bolt actions. As expected, the SA was fastest, but there wasn't much difference between the other actions used by experienced shooters.