poor tactics- disturbing video - Page 2

Hollywood D · October 2, 2005, 07:10 PM

Wow, that is really disturbing. And very sad. If he failed to comply after my first verbal command I would have shot.

EIGHTYDUECE · October 5, 2005, 10:35 AM

It looks like the passenger in the cab leans over to load the magazine of the carbine or something. It appears as though the crazy behaviour of the driver outside the vehicle is just a diversion to buy the other guy in the cab time to load the M1 Carbine magazine. After the carbine magazine is loaded the driver returns to the truck and inserts the magazine into the carbine and begins firing.

Powderman · October 5, 2005, 11:24 AM

We just went through similar situations in the FATS simulator.

Lessons learned:

1. Stay alert, stay alive. If the passenger is moving around in the vehicle, there is a reason. Be alert.

2. Use your tools when necessary, and have the tools you need.
A baton strike might have been the only thing the officer could have resorted to. We have better tools now, such as the Taser.

Learn the limits, and think through the scenarios: "If the driver does this, I will...If the driver crosses this point, I will...

3. Do not let prior incidents cloud your judgement. I'm sure the officer had the disciplinary action in mind when the incident occurred.

4. Just like in the military, have a "line of departure". This is the line that, once crossed, triggers swift and decisive action.

In this case, considering his speech and demeanor,that line would have been as soon as the guy was observed with a firearm in his hands. Ideally, he should have caught a 12 Ga. slug immediately, and then the passenger should have been immediately covered.

I will say this, though--given the litigious nature of our society, had the officer used multiple baton strikes on the perp at the first part of the encounter, he might have survived--and lost everything he had as part of the impending lawsuit. A bleeding heart jury would hear how he beat down this poor, defenseless veteran.

As someone said earlier, this was a lose/lose situation.

To answer an earlier question re: Taser use, YES. As soon as the guy crossed a line of safe distance (max engagement range of the Taser, not published here out of a sense of propriety

) he should have been popped immediately.

Note, however, the loose clothing. While the Taser is effective through clothing, there is a chance that a light hit could result. In this case, given the person's demeanor, I would probably have transitioned to my sidearm immediately if the Taser proved ineffective.

Rest in peace, Deputy.

October 2, 2005, 07:10 PM	#26
Hollywood D Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 60	Wow, that is really disturbing. And very sad. If he failed to comply after my first verbal command I would have shot. __________________ Give me 3 stacks of High Society Springfield XD-40

October 5, 2005, 10:35 AM	#27
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	It looks like the passenger in the cab leans over to load the magazine of the carbine or something. It appears as though the crazy behaviour of the driver outside the vehicle is just a diversion to buy the other guy in the cab time to load the M1 Carbine magazine. After the carbine magazine is loaded the driver returns to the truck and inserts the magazine into the carbine and begins firing. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

October 5, 2005, 11:24 AM	#28
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	We just went through similar situations in the FATS simulator. Lessons learned: 1. Stay alert, stay alive. If the passenger is moving around in the vehicle, there is a reason. Be alert. 2. Use your tools when necessary, and have the tools you need. A baton strike might have been the only thing the officer could have resorted to. We have better tools now, such as the Taser. Learn the limits, and think through the scenarios: "If the driver does this, I will...If the driver crosses this point, I will... 3. Do not let prior incidents cloud your judgement. I'm sure the officer had the disciplinary action in mind when the incident occurred. 4. Just like in the military, have a "line of departure". This is the line that, once crossed, triggers swift and decisive action. In this case, considering his speech and demeanor,that line would have been as soon as the guy was observed with a firearm in his hands. Ideally, he should have caught a 12 Ga. slug immediately, and then the passenger should have been immediately covered. I will say this, though--given the litigious nature of our society, had the officer used multiple baton strikes on the perp at the first part of the encounter, he might have survived--and lost everything he had as part of the impending lawsuit. A bleeding heart jury would hear how he beat down this poor, defenseless veteran. As someone said earlier, this was a lose/lose situation. To answer an earlier question re: Taser use, YES. As soon as the guy crossed a line of safe distance (max engagement range of the Taser, not published here out of a sense of propriety ) he should have been popped immediately. Note, however, the loose clothing. While the Taser is effective through clothing, there is a chance that a light hit could result. In this case, given the person's demeanor, I would probably have transitioned to my sidearm immediately if the Taser proved ineffective. Rest in peace, Deputy. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...