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Old November 10, 2006, 05:28 PM   #1
shooter chef
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9mm and AA#5

Anyone have any experience with this combination?
I loaded AA#5 at 6.7gr for 9mm luger with a 115gr TMJ hornady.. do you think this will be a little hot, or is it ok?
I have seen several different data, and cannot come to a conclusion, also, what do you think about 5.2gr WST for same?
Thanks... just bought a 92FS and don't wanna do any damage!!!
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Old November 12, 2006, 12:19 PM   #2
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I have been shooting 125 grain lead bullets with AA #5 and like it fine. I believe I have been putting in roughly 5.5 to 5.7 grains and the max is 6.2 grains. I do tend to get some unburnt powder if I'm shooting minimum loads which I don't like about it and It is such a small granual size powder it spills a lot oll over the work bench and turret press so I probably won't get it again. I don't have any experience with AA #5 and 115 gr bullets.
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Old November 12, 2006, 06:41 PM   #3
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I use AA#5, exclusively, for 9mm reloading. I reload 115 and 124gr. jackted bullets. I just use the published load data, but usually wind up right around the max published load. Also only use small rifle primers with 9mm.
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Old November 13, 2006, 07:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Also only use small rifle primers with 9mm
Why rifle primers instead of small pistol?

West
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Old November 13, 2006, 09:04 PM   #5
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According to Accurate's posted data, you are up near the limit of 7 gr for this weight of jacketed bullet. The posted pressures are well within the capability of the 92.

I would load about 10 rounds or so starting lower (6.3 gr)and increasing .1 gr until you reach max of 7.0 grains. Then go to the range and shoot these rounds from a rest comparing groups. When your done, you will see which load is best for your 92.

I just did this exercise today only using AA-7 with 124 gr JHP in my Sig P-229. My load ended up at 8.0 gr. (AA-7)

BTW, I use only Small Pistol Primers. Have for the last 20,000 rounds or so. Rifle Primers???????
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Old November 14, 2006, 10:02 AM   #6
Mike Irwin
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I never found any need or reason to use rifle primers in my 9mm loads.

If you do, recognize that rifle primers are generally more energetic than pistol primers due to the typically larger case volumes/powder charges and could spike pressures above acceptable levels in a handgun round.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying use care doing it.
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Old November 14, 2006, 12:34 PM   #7
Ausserordeutlich
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I use small rifle primers, because I only have to buy one size small primer for reloading both my .223s and 9mm loads. When I occasionally load .40 Supers, the small rifle primers come in handy for that too.

As long as you aren't loading really hot with 9mm, you're safe using small rifle primers. The only difference in "regular" 9mm brass and +p 9mm brass is the headstamp.
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Old November 14, 2006, 01:19 PM   #8
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i've been using AA2 for 9mm for IDPA loads. I could give you the specs if you're interested.
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Old November 19, 2006, 04:09 PM   #9
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In my Browning Hi Power, 6.7g of #5 with a Remington 115g FMJ just about duplicates 115g Winchester White Box. It is more than 100fps BELOW Speer 115g Gold Dot factory ammo, which is NOT marked as +P. So I wouldn't say your loads are particularly hot.
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Old November 23, 2006, 02:26 AM   #10
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.



AA#5 and Win 115 gr JHP 1.169" OAL, gets a spike in pressure not far from the max published load. I overloaded this combination and got:
a) case bulge
b) case blow out
c) case head blew off, blew the bottom plate off the magazine, the follower and ammo hit me in the foot, the extractor sheared in half, half the extactor went to the right and put a hole through a plywood board, the extractor pin sheared in half, wrecks the hold open, and debris came back through the ejector slot the slide and blasted out the rear of the pistol.

0) Minimum charge to cycle pistol........ 5.0 gr.
00) 9x19mm.................................7.7 gr. 1260 fps 34,000psi
a) Primer pierce, case bulge ............10.0 gr.
b) Case failure [hole] threshold [kaboom] 10.7 gr.
c) Case head separation [big kaboom].....11.5 gr. wrecks extractor and hold open




I went over the max book load and found the threshold of trouble nearby. I had a strong pistol [Kel-Tec P11] with .190" of feed ramp intrusion and .160" RP primed brass that had .030" of thin unsupported case wall that bulged. At some point I had to go to a thicker primer becuase the RP was piercing.

What does it all mean?
Most powders have lots of safety margin for 9mm, but not AA#5, it wants to blow things up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AA#5in9x19mm115grWorkupCases.JPG (62.1 KB, 1123 views)
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Old November 26, 2006, 11:22 AM   #11
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Warning!

Incorrect: "...the only difference in "regular" 9mm brass and +P brass is the headstamp..."

This does a potentially dangerous disservice to novice handloaders.
9x19 "brass" is all different, and if you measure capacity you'll see for yourself.

(Hornady max 6.6g; Accurate max 7.0g)
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Old November 26, 2006, 11:39 AM   #12
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+1 on WESHOOT2's comment ...

I have found 9mm brass from different manufacturer's to vary greatly when it comes to case capacity. Given that a 9mm Para doesn't have a whole lot of capacity to start, and that we are typically running in the 35,000 psi range, we all need to be aware of this.

I have created cases much like those in Clark's picture using Blue Dot in a Beretta 92. I was at or near, but never over, every max published Blue Dot load I could find for a 147 gr. bullet.

Lesson learned by me ... approach max 9mm loads with serious caution ... there is not much margin.

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Old November 27, 2006, 10:50 AM   #13
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Stick with published loads with the 9MM and you will be OK. Unique is a particularly good powder for the 9MM. first it works well and 2nd it is virtually imposible to double charge a case, which adds some safety to the whole process. My favourite load for 125 gr lead bullets for accuracyand playing the games IDPA/IPSC is 4 Gr Unique, OAL 1.115. SD's over my chrono are consistently single digit.

Paper targets don't care how fast the bullet goes through them and a 125 gr lead bullet coming at you at 950fps is not catchable either.

Take Care

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Old November 27, 2006, 06:06 PM   #14
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Warning! Maybe I should have qualified my previous post. According to Starline, THEIR 9mm +p brass only differs from their "regular" 9mm brass in headstamping. Pretty good bet that's the way it is with other brass manufacturers, too.

I agree on sticking with published loads. What's the point of loading greater than already-researched loads, if not than just to have something to post on the internet?? Doesn't take much of a wizard to keep dumping powder in a case until the weapon in which the cartridge is fired is destroyed.
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Old November 27, 2006, 06:40 PM   #15
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"Doesn't take much of a wizard to keep dumping powder in a case until the weapon in which the cartridge is fired is destroyed."

One of the best statements I have read on this or any other forum. All that has been done before. About the only thing you accomplish by pushing the limits is shortening your guns life and if things get out of hand, your own!


Take Care

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Old November 28, 2006, 11:23 AM   #16
Clark
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RP makes 9mm, 9mm+P, and 9mm+P+ brass.

I have all three, and I have tested all three to find the limit of the brass strength.

I have cross sectioned all three and looked under a microscope.

I have weighed all three.

They are the same, but for the head stamp.

---------------------------

Likewise from Starline; 45acp, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland are the same strength. [Starline 45 +P is thicker and stronger with less capacity and 460 is longer] The man at Starline tells me that the 45 Super and 460 R have better heat treat than 45acp, but it does not seem to affect my testing.

--------------------------------------------------

Likewise from Winchester, the 8mm brass is sammi rated at 35kpsi and the 6mm brass at 65kpsi, but neck down the 8mm to 6mm, load until yield, and it is the same, but for head stamp and mouth diameter.
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Old November 28, 2006, 11:53 AM   #17
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I sent an email to Remington and they confirmed the cases are the same with different headstamps. Easier.

Take Care

Bob
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