Some Q's on Bullet Selection

m0ntels · November 11, 2004, 12:33 PM

Getting ready to order up my first bunch of bullets to load 9mm and 38/357 and had some questions. I wanted to try 2 weights in 2 brands of bullets for each to see what works best in my guns. When I was looking at ones for the 9, I saw many in 124gr, which I have shot with better results in factory loads, but all my books show data for 125 gr bullets. Is 1 gr enough to require different reloading data?

Also the Lyman book lists the bullets with diff data for FMJ, JHP, etc, but the Lee just lists jacketed or cast. Does it make a difference for load level exactly what type of bullet it is? The Lee data leads me to believe it doesnt matter if I'm loading a JHP vs a FMJ or whatever as long as it is jacketed.

I've found data on the bullet manufacturers' sites, but am just looking for more options than they list, in case a powder I want to try isnt listed there. I knew that was gonna be the first thing someone would say to do....so I beat ya to it

And as to lead bullets which I may want to try later, do they come pre-lubed or would I need to buy some special cast bullet lube? Do case necks need to be lubed on jacketed pistol rounds? Thanks.

Randy

Jim Watson · November 11, 2004, 01:59 PM

Q I saw many in 124gr, which I have shot with better results in factory loads, but all my books show data for 125 gr bullets. Is 1 gr enough to require different reloading data?

A No, all else being equal... which it seldom is.

Q Also the Lyman book lists the bullets with diff data for FMJ, JHP, etc, but the Lee just lists jacketed or cast. Does it make a difference for load level exactly what type of bullet it is? The Lee data leads me to believe it doesnt matter if I'm loading a JHP vs a FMJ or whatever as long as it is jacketed.

A Loads differ from cast to jacketed - plated loads more like cast than jacketed - use the right set. The reason loads differ between FMJ and JHP of the same weight is because the hollowpoint is usually seated deeper leaving less powder space which runs pressure up.
Lee does no load testing. The Lee book is just parroting powder company loads with specific bullet, brass, and primer data left off. There are some other peculiarities in the Lee book, including some start and maximum loads that are shown the same. Due to Lee powder measure sizes, I think. Compare and use the data closest to your actual components.

Q And as to lead bullets which I may want to try later, do they come pre-lubed or would I need to buy some special cast bullet lube? Do case necks need to be lubed on jacketed pistol rounds? Thanks.

A Commercial cast bullets come with lube in the groove. The main thing about loading cast bullets is to flare the case enough to seat the bullet without scraping lead; they are typically .001" larger than jacketed. The next thing to know is that the burning bullet lube and lead fume eroded off the bullet generate fouling and smoke. If you don't like to clean your gun every outing, buy jacketed and don't whine.
You do not need to (and should not) lube case necks for any bullet. There were some '03 Springfields blown up that way.

saands · November 11, 2004, 05:45 PM

Jim was being kind in his treatment of the Lee Manual. I, personally, cannot understand how Lee has not ended up in court over that book. The stories in it make it seem like you can just extrapolate to your hearts content and never really have to worry about anything ... for example: I think that it is great that he was able load rounds so that the bullets barely left the barrel, but messing around with loads that are THAT far from the manufacturers load data is NOT something that the beginner should try (and I'd dare to say that it is of questionable judgement for experienced reloaders as well). The first thing to understand about interior ballistics (that which occurs after the primer is struck and before the bullet leaves the muzzle) is that nothing there is linear!

Anyway, Jim is spot-on about going to the component manufacturers for your starting data. One thing that I have found is that the powder manufacturers' data is more useful to me as I like to try bullets from many different manufacturers. When I can't find the exact load, then I try to make sure that I am seating the base of the bullets to the same place (as opposed to ending up with the same OAL) for reasons of pressure consistency.

Good luck! Be safe ... and remember, when in doubt, ask!

Wear your eye protection, don't eat or smoke while reloading, and wash your hands before dinner

Saands

Leftoverdj · November 11, 2004, 06:08 PM

I rather like the Lee Manual. As has been mentioned, the data section is just a compilation of data supplied by the powder companies. That explains the loads where the min and the max charge is shown as the same. The WW manual frequently shows charges that are to be used exactly as listed. When Lee ran across such a recipe, they show the min and the max as the same.

There's a chapter in the front on how non-linear pressure is, and I have certainly seen nothing in my volume suggesting that you can safely freely extrapolate. What is there is a chapter on shooting cast bullets with a handful of powders that are known to be safe with cast in greatly reduced charges. Lee even had that section pressure tested.

Cast bullets are much more forgiving of greatly reduced pressures than jacketed. They have far less friction and almost no chance of being solidly wedged in the bore when the main charge ignites.

saands · November 11, 2004, 06:27 PM

Leftoverdj: I have had mine for many years, so maybe you have a newer volume. It could also be that we have different ideas of what is reasonable ... and that's OK ... everyone does and it's good to have the discussion. Personally, I think that a basic relaoding manual ought to stick to topics that will keep beginners out of trouble. I'd suggest that (at least my version of) the Lee manual drifts out of that realm. The section in my book that relates to the non-linearity of interior ballistics has formulae copied (with permission, IIRC) from a Vihtavuori publication. In that section an untrained reader (and I've known a couple) can apply the correct formula in the correct manner and, without any knowledge, load a round so light that detonation could occur. The formulae are probably GREAT to help predict what will happen between the start charge and the max charge, but I can't recall ever reading that I should avoid applying them to parameters outside the published data ... and again, IIRC, there is at least some suggestion that it is actually OK to apply them to parameters outside the published data. I still have it on my shelf, so I obviously don't find it BAD, but I don't think that it is a good choice of a first reloading manual and especially if a person is only going to have one.

Just my opinion, and I've been told that I'm overly cautious before

Saands

m0ntels · November 11, 2004, 08:06 PM

So plated bullets should be loaded to the higher side of similar lead bullet loads? The data for max cast and min jacketed seem to overlap anyway.

Randy

saands · November 11, 2004, 08:33 PM

OK ... I think that we've already established that I'm conservative

but my approach is that when I use plated bullets (which is frequent) and there isn't any plated data (which is also, unfortunately, frequent) then I just stay below the max of the lower of the jacketed or cast bullets with data. I (like many other, I imagine) used to always try to squeak every last fps out of every load ... but what I eventually found was that there are very little performance gains to be had. I don't know if it has been just a coincidence, but it seems that most of the time, the best shooting load is right around 95% of max in my pistols. But to answer your question directly, I just looked up 9x19 in VV's manual and for N320 they have the same max for cast as plated and the JHP max is .2gr higher. For N330 the plated max is .1gr less than the cast and .5gr less than the JHP (go figure!?!?) and for the N340, the cast=plated and JHP is .5gr higher.

Hope that helps ...

Saands

Jim Watson · November 11, 2004, 08:46 PM

Why the higher side?
Load them to spec, they are cheaply made and there is no reason to push them.
I have found very few guns that will not function with the usual recommended "starting load" of 90% of the maximum charge weight. I commonly load 9mm to 95% because the European guns are set up for the effectively higher CIP pressure.

m0ntels · November 11, 2004, 10:40 PM

I didnt mean higher side as in higher than max charge for either pure lead or plated bullets. Lemme explain it how I'm reading it:

Book: Lyman 47th (cuz that's what I'm rereading yet again)

9mm Luger
Power Pistol Powder

125gr JHP
Min: 5.1gr
Max: 5.7gr

125gr Lead
Min: 4.8gr
Max: 5.4gr

----------------------------

357 Mag
2400 Powder

125gr JHP
Min: 13.0gr
Max: 17.7gr

125 Linotype
Min: 11.5gr
Max: 14.0gr

Now let me go over the things I semi-think I understand. Lead bullets have less friction and melt at lower temps, which is the reason for a reduced charge in the first place, correct?

Plated bullets are pure lead with just a thin layer of copper. Is this purely to reduce fowling or is it like a gas check to help the bullet maintain its integrity better? Does the plating increase friction enough to make it require more pressure to keep from getting stuck halfway down my barrel or is it thin enough the rifling will cut through it and be lubed by the lead?

This leads into my question about loading higher than for pure lead bullets. Back to my chart.... Would say 5.1gr of PowerPistol be a medium strength and safe load in the 9mm? Same with 13.5gr of 2400 in the 357 mag? It wouldnt be exceeding max pressure for either bullet, but what I was really getting at initially was should plated bullets be started out that little bit higher than the bare minimun for a pure lead bullet due to the plating? Liek if i loaded the plated 357 mags at 11.5 grains would the extra friction of the copper slow down the bullet and possibly get it stuck?

I have no intentions of ever purposely testing the chamber limits of any one of my guns. In fact one of the main reasons I wanted to roll my own was that I'd like lighter loads so I can extend my practice time. I'm a big guy, but I'd rather work on boosting my skill with shot placement rather than show off with a giant muzzle blast. My area of concern is that since I'm not an experienced loader...or the greatest shot in the world....is that I would fire a round, think I just missed the target or that I loaded the bullet goofy and it went off as a flyer, but in reality is stuck in the bore and kablammo. I will probly be doing single shots for the first few rounds because I dont know how good my crimps will be, etc, but never having made a bullet and having heard all the supposed horror stories from reloading, I just want to make sure I understand EVERYTHING I can. I'm not out to prove anything with high power loads, I just want to become a better shooter. (I didnt take offense to anything you said, just clarifying what my goals are by reloading.)

Hopefully that clears up what I meant to say the first time. Also since I inadvertantly brought it up...what is Linotype exactly? I remember reading about it, but cant recall offhand what it means. It has something to do with the lead alloy itself right?

Randy

Jim Watson · November 11, 2004, 11:29 PM

Lessee, now.
Plated bullets are made to give good appearance and no lead or lube fouling at minimum cost. The plating adds no strength and the cores seem pretty soft. I don't use 'em. If you do, the main thing to watch is to not crimp them so hard as to cut or crack the plating.

There are a lot of factors affecting chamber pressure with different bullet construction; friction, obturation (the bullet setting up under pressure to seal the barrel) and lubrication. In general, a greasy lead bullet gets down the barrel easier than a hard copper jacketed one.

I doubt you will stick a bullet of any construction at the listed starting load. Note that Lyman shows starting loads lighter than 90% of the maximum; I wouldn't go below that. Like I said, I am comfortable loading 9mm to 95% but 90% is a good safety margin to learn on. 5.1 gr of Power Pistol will be fine. It will give you a loud report and a bright muzzle flash; Alliant says PP was designed for top ballistics in 9mm but you pay for it with the fireworks.

Likewise, 11.5 grains 2400 is not much in .357 magnum, especially not with a 125 gr bullet.

Linotype is the alloy they used to use to make newspaper type from in the Line-O-Type machine. It is 84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin. It is quite hard as lead alloys go, and has the advantage that it is a eutectic alloy with a sharp melting point like a pure metal; it doesn't get sludgy in the melting pot, it is either solid or liquid. It is also expensive and unnecessarily hard for pistol bullets. Most commercial bullets are 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin.

m0ntels · November 12, 2004, 12:11 AM

So treat plated bullets as basically nothing more than lead bullets in a pretty color. Simple enough. I'll be mostly starting with jacketed bullets, but figured I should try some lead/plated since they're so cheap. I'll be using Lee Factory Crimp dies so that should reduce my chances of overcrimp if I'm understanding their reason for existance correctly. The powders I want to start with sound to be pretty mild too: BlueDot, GreenDot, Unique, Universal, or Bullseye. They all seem pretty popular and will work for many of the things I wish to eventually load for. Thanks for clearing some things up for me, Jim.

Randy

Jim Watson · November 12, 2004, 07:51 AM

A lot of people shoot plated bullets because they are cheaper than jacketed and they don't have to clean their guns (and seating dies) as often as with cast. But I have not gotten the accuracy out of them that I do from either good cast or jacketed. All you can do is try some and see.

Of the powders you list, Blue Dot is decent in .357 Magnum; I used to use it because it was the slowest burning powder that did not call for a magnum primer, which simplified inventory and let me get reliable ignition in soft sprung guns with Federal standard primers. Green Dot is seldom shot in pistols but is really about right for 9mm. Unique and Universal are near twins from Alliant and Hodgdon, good for .357s at about the .38 +P+ level and ok in 9mm even though they give compressed loads. Bullseye is the old standard target load powder. It will make factory equivalent in 9mm and .38 Special, but don't try to magnumize it. The only gun ever demolished on our range was with a (borrowed) load of 9 grains Bullseye in .357 brass. Most likely it was really 18 grains.

drinks · November 12, 2004, 10:40 PM

I shoot mostly cast bullets, in pistols, Universal or Unique seem to be very close, I also use PB and Herco, Herco especially with heavy for caliber bullets.
In .44-40 usually Herco or IMR 4227, although I have very good results with Reloder7 and 240gr gc swc
In rifles I am getting good results with IMR 4227, Reloder7 and Varget in lighter, medium and near factory velocity loads.
I use Liquid Alox and LBT soft blue lube and even at 2300 fps have no leading with either lube.
I do test my alloys for strength, BHN# , and either air cool or water drop, depending on how fast I plan on loading them to.
I have been able to get BHN 23, over 30,000 psi, with wheelweights with 2% Tin and 1 oz chilled bird shot per 48 oz of alloy and water dropped.
To apply the LBT soft blue lube without $250 worth of lubrisizer and dies and nose punches, I use my $1 garage sale hot plate, a sardine tin and small forceps, melt a stick of lube, turn down the thermostat to just keep the lube liquid, place the bullet[s] in the pan with the forceps, watch, as you put the cold bullet in, the lube depresses at the bullet, after 10-15 seconds, the lube climbs up the bullet sides, take it out, let the last drop drip off and set it down on an old aluminum throwaway pie plate to cool
Makes a nice thin coat over the bearing surface and fills the grooves well, if you bell the case mouth slightly, the lube stays on during loading.
Works good for me.
Don

.

November 11, 2004, 12:33 PM	#1
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	Some Q's on Bullet Selection Getting ready to order up my first bunch of bullets to load 9mm and 38/357 and had some questions. I wanted to try 2 weights in 2 brands of bullets for each to see what works best in my guns. When I was looking at ones for the 9, I saw many in 124gr, which I have shot with better results in factory loads, but all my books show data for 125 gr bullets. Is 1 gr enough to require different reloading data? Also the Lyman book lists the bullets with diff data for FMJ, JHP, etc, but the Lee just lists jacketed or cast. Does it make a difference for load level exactly what type of bullet it is? The Lee data leads me to believe it doesnt matter if I'm loading a JHP vs a FMJ or whatever as long as it is jacketed. I've found data on the bullet manufacturers' sites, but am just looking for more options than they list, in case a powder I want to try isnt listed there. I knew that was gonna be the first thing someone would say to do....so I beat ya to it And as to lead bullets which I may want to try later, do they come pre-lubed or would I need to buy some special cast bullet lube? Do case necks need to be lubed on jacketed pistol rounds? Thanks. Randy

November 12, 2004, 10:40 PM	#13
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	Loads I shoot mostly cast bullets, in pistols, Universal or Unique seem to be very close, I also use PB and Herco, Herco especially with heavy for caliber bullets. In .44-40 usually Herco or IMR 4227, although I have very good results with Reloder7 and 240gr gc swc In rifles I am getting good results with IMR 4227, Reloder7 and Varget in lighter, medium and near factory velocity loads. I use Liquid Alox and LBT soft blue lube and even at 2300 fps have no leading with either lube. I do test my alloys for strength, BHN# , and either air cool or water drop, depending on how fast I plan on loading them to. I have been able to get BHN 23, over 30,000 psi, with wheelweights with 2% Tin and 1 oz chilled bird shot per 48 oz of alloy and water dropped. To apply the LBT soft blue lube without $250 worth of lubrisizer and dies and nose punches, I use my $1 garage sale hot plate, a sardine tin and small forceps, melt a stick of lube, turn down the thermostat to just keep the lube liquid, place the bullet[s] in the pan with the forceps, watch, as you put the cold bullet in, the lube depresses at the bullet, after 10-15 seconds, the lube climbs up the bullet sides, take it out, let the last drop drip off and set it down on an old aluminum throwaway pie plate to cool Makes a nice thin coat over the bearing surface and fills the grooves well, if you bell the case mouth slightly, the lube stays on during loading. Works good for me. Don .

November 11, 2004, 01:59 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	Q I saw many in 124gr, which I have shot with better results in factory loads, but all my books show data for 125 gr bullets. Is 1 gr enough to require different reloading data? A No, all else being equal... which it seldom is. Q Also the Lyman book lists the bullets with diff data for FMJ, JHP, etc, but the Lee just lists jacketed or cast. Does it make a difference for load level exactly what type of bullet it is? The Lee data leads me to believe it doesnt matter if I'm loading a JHP vs a FMJ or whatever as long as it is jacketed. A Loads differ from cast to jacketed - plated loads more like cast than jacketed - use the right set. The reason loads differ between FMJ and JHP of the same weight is because the hollowpoint is usually seated deeper leaving less powder space which runs pressure up. Lee does no load testing. The Lee book is just parroting powder company loads with specific bullet, brass, and primer data left off. There are some other peculiarities in the Lee book, including some start and maximum loads that are shown the same. Due to Lee powder measure sizes, I think. Compare and use the data closest to your actual components. Q And as to lead bullets which I may want to try later, do they come pre-lubed or would I need to buy some special cast bullet lube? Do case necks need to be lubed on jacketed pistol rounds? Thanks. A Commercial cast bullets come with lube in the groove. The main thing about loading cast bullets is to flare the case enough to seat the bullet without scraping lead; they are typically .001" larger than jacketed. The next thing to know is that the burning bullet lube and lead fume eroded off the bullet generate fouling and smoke. If you don't like to clean your gun every outing, buy jacketed and don't whine. You do not need to (and should not) lube case necks for any bullet. There were some '03 Springfields blown up that way.

November 11, 2004, 05:45 PM	#3
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Jim was being kind in his treatment of the Lee Manual. I, personally, cannot understand how Lee has not ended up in court over that book. The stories in it make it seem like you can just extrapolate to your hearts content and never really have to worry about anything ... for example: I think that it is great that he was able load rounds so that the bullets barely left the barrel, but messing around with loads that are THAT far from the manufacturers load data is NOT something that the beginner should try (and I'd dare to say that it is of questionable judgement for experienced reloaders as well). The first thing to understand about interior ballistics (that which occurs after the primer is struck and before the bullet leaves the muzzle) is that nothing there is linear! Anyway, Jim is spot-on about going to the component manufacturers for your starting data. One thing that I have found is that the powder manufacturers' data is more useful to me as I like to try bullets from many different manufacturers. When I can't find the exact load, then I try to make sure that I am seating the base of the bullets to the same place (as opposed to ending up with the same OAL) for reasons of pressure consistency. Good luck! Be safe ... and remember, when in doubt, ask! Wear your eye protection, don't eat or smoke while reloading, and wash your hands before dinner Saands

November 11, 2004, 06:08 PM	#4
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	I rather like the Lee Manual. As has been mentioned, the data section is just a compilation of data supplied by the powder companies. That explains the loads where the min and the max charge is shown as the same. The WW manual frequently shows charges that are to be used exactly as listed. When Lee ran across such a recipe, they show the min and the max as the same. There's a chapter in the front on how non-linear pressure is, and I have certainly seen nothing in my volume suggesting that you can safely freely extrapolate. What is there is a chapter on shooting cast bullets with a handful of powders that are known to be safe with cast in greatly reduced charges. Lee even had that section pressure tested. Cast bullets are much more forgiving of greatly reduced pressures than jacketed. They have far less friction and almost no chance of being solidly wedged in the bore when the main charge ignites.

November 11, 2004, 06:27 PM	#5
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Leftoverdj: I have had mine for many years, so maybe you have a newer volume. It could also be that we have different ideas of what is reasonable ... and that's OK ... everyone does and it's good to have the discussion. Personally, I think that a basic relaoding manual ought to stick to topics that will keep beginners out of trouble. I'd suggest that (at least my version of) the Lee manual drifts out of that realm. The section in my book that relates to the non-linearity of interior ballistics has formulae copied (with permission, IIRC) from a Vihtavuori publication. In that section an untrained reader (and I've known a couple) can apply the correct formula in the correct manner and, without any knowledge, load a round so light that detonation could occur. The formulae are probably GREAT to help predict what will happen between the start charge and the max charge, but I can't recall ever reading that I should avoid applying them to parameters outside the published data ... and again, IIRC, there is at least some suggestion that it is actually OK to apply them to parameters outside the published data. I still have it on my shelf, so I obviously don't find it BAD, but I don't think that it is a good choice of a first reloading manual and especially if a person is only going to have one. Just my opinion, and I've been told that I'm overly cautious before Saands

November 11, 2004, 08:06 PM	#6
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	So plated bullets should be loaded to the higher side of similar lead bullet loads? The data for max cast and min jacketed seem to overlap anyway. Randy

November 11, 2004, 08:33 PM	#7
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	OK ... I think that we've already established that I'm conservative but my approach is that when I use plated bullets (which is frequent) and there isn't any plated data (which is also, unfortunately, frequent) then I just stay below the max of the lower of the jacketed or cast bullets with data. I (like many other, I imagine) used to always try to squeak every last fps out of every load ... but what I eventually found was that there are very little performance gains to be had. I don't know if it has been just a coincidence, but it seems that most of the time, the best shooting load is right around 95% of max in my pistols. But to answer your question directly, I just looked up 9x19 in VV's manual and for N320 they have the same max for cast as plated and the JHP max is .2gr higher. For N330 the plated max is .1gr less than the cast and .5gr less than the JHP (go figure!?!?) and for the N340, the cast=plated and JHP is .5gr higher. Hope that helps ... Saands

November 11, 2004, 08:46 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	Why the higher side? Load them to spec, they are cheaply made and there is no reason to push them. I have found very few guns that will not function with the usual recommended "starting load" of 90% of the maximum charge weight. I commonly load 9mm to 95% because the European guns are set up for the effectively higher CIP pressure.

November 11, 2004, 10:40 PM	#9
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	I didnt mean higher side as in higher than max charge for either pure lead or plated bullets. Lemme explain it how I'm reading it: Book: Lyman 47th (cuz that's what I'm rereading yet again) 9mm Luger Power Pistol Powder 125gr JHP Min: 5.1gr Max: 5.7gr 125gr Lead Min: 4.8gr Max: 5.4gr ---------------------------- 357 Mag 2400 Powder 125gr JHP Min: 13.0gr Max: 17.7gr 125 Linotype Min: 11.5gr Max: 14.0gr Now let me go over the things I semi-think I understand. Lead bullets have less friction and melt at lower temps, which is the reason for a reduced charge in the first place, correct? Plated bullets are pure lead with just a thin layer of copper. Is this purely to reduce fowling or is it like a gas check to help the bullet maintain its integrity better? Does the plating increase friction enough to make it require more pressure to keep from getting stuck halfway down my barrel or is it thin enough the rifling will cut through it and be lubed by the lead? This leads into my question about loading higher than for pure lead bullets. Back to my chart.... Would say 5.1gr of PowerPistol be a medium strength and safe load in the 9mm? Same with 13.5gr of 2400 in the 357 mag? It wouldnt be exceeding max pressure for either bullet, but what I was really getting at initially was should plated bullets be started out that little bit higher than the bare minimun for a pure lead bullet due to the plating? Liek if i loaded the plated 357 mags at 11.5 grains would the extra friction of the copper slow down the bullet and possibly get it stuck? I have no intentions of ever purposely testing the chamber limits of any one of my guns. In fact one of the main reasons I wanted to roll my own was that I'd like lighter loads so I can extend my practice time. I'm a big guy, but I'd rather work on boosting my skill with shot placement rather than show off with a giant muzzle blast. My area of concern is that since I'm not an experienced loader...or the greatest shot in the world....is that I would fire a round, think I just missed the target or that I loaded the bullet goofy and it went off as a flyer, but in reality is stuck in the bore and kablammo. I will probly be doing single shots for the first few rounds because I dont know how good my crimps will be, etc, but never having made a bullet and having heard all the supposed horror stories from reloading, I just want to make sure I understand EVERYTHING I can. I'm not out to prove anything with high power loads, I just want to become a better shooter. (I didnt take offense to anything you said, just clarifying what my goals are by reloading.) Hopefully that clears up what I meant to say the first time. Also since I inadvertantly brought it up...what is Linotype exactly? I remember reading about it, but cant recall offhand what it means. It has something to do with the lead alloy itself right? Randy

November 11, 2004, 11:29 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	Lessee, now. Plated bullets are made to give good appearance and no lead or lube fouling at minimum cost. The plating adds no strength and the cores seem pretty soft. I don't use 'em. If you do, the main thing to watch is to not crimp them so hard as to cut or crack the plating. There are a lot of factors affecting chamber pressure with different bullet construction; friction, obturation (the bullet setting up under pressure to seal the barrel) and lubrication. In general, a greasy lead bullet gets down the barrel easier than a hard copper jacketed one. I doubt you will stick a bullet of any construction at the listed starting load. Note that Lyman shows starting loads lighter than 90% of the maximum; I wouldn't go below that. Like I said, I am comfortable loading 9mm to 95% but 90% is a good safety margin to learn on. 5.1 gr of Power Pistol will be fine. It will give you a loud report and a bright muzzle flash; Alliant says PP was designed for top ballistics in 9mm but you pay for it with the fireworks. Likewise, 11.5 grains 2400 is not much in .357 magnum, especially not with a 125 gr bullet. Linotype is the alloy they used to use to make newspaper type from in the Line-O-Type machine. It is 84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin. It is quite hard as lead alloys go, and has the advantage that it is a eutectic alloy with a sharp melting point like a pure metal; it doesn't get sludgy in the melting pot, it is either solid or liquid. It is also expensive and unnecessarily hard for pistol bullets. Most commercial bullets are 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin.

November 12, 2004, 12:11 AM	#11
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	So treat plated bullets as basically nothing more than lead bullets in a pretty color. Simple enough. I'll be mostly starting with jacketed bullets, but figured I should try some lead/plated since they're so cheap. I'll be using Lee Factory Crimp dies so that should reduce my chances of overcrimp if I'm understanding their reason for existance correctly. The powders I want to start with sound to be pretty mild too: BlueDot, GreenDot, Unique, Universal, or Bullseye. They all seem pretty popular and will work for many of the things I wish to eventually load for. Thanks for clearing some things up for me, Jim. Randy

November 12, 2004, 07:51 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	A lot of people shoot plated bullets because they are cheaper than jacketed and they don't have to clean their guns (and seating dies) as often as with cast. But I have not gotten the accuracy out of them that I do from either good cast or jacketed. All you can do is try some and see. Of the powders you list, Blue Dot is decent in .357 Magnum; I used to use it because it was the slowest burning powder that did not call for a magnum primer, which simplified inventory and let me get reliable ignition in soft sprung guns with Federal standard primers. Green Dot is seldom shot in pistols but is really about right for 9mm. Unique and Universal are near twins from Alliant and Hodgdon, good for .357s at about the .38 +P+ level and ok in 9mm even though they give compressed loads. Bullseye is the old standard target load powder. It will make factory equivalent in 9mm and .38 Special, but don't try to magnumize it. The only gun ever demolished on our range was with a (borrowed) load of 9 grains Bullseye in .357 brass. Most likely it was really 18 grains.