Stuck case - REALLY Stuck!

histed · September 4, 2013, 06:29 PM

Over the years I've managed to stick a few and its never a lot of fun. This time I really did it and can't figure out 1)how in hades it happened or 2) how to get it out. I was loading .308 Winchester, using RCBS dies - full length sizing. As always I was rolling 3-4 cases at a time on my lube pad, then running them through the sizing die. 38 cases, no problem. 39 went in and felt a little tighter, but no real pressure needed. Howsome ever, when I tried to lower the ram it stuck. I tried bumping the ram, then put some real elbow grease on it and... the case separated jut above the web, leaving me with about 3/4 of a case stuck in the die. I disassembled the die - easy enough with the case ripped up - and tried knocking the case out from the neck area. No joy. Its as if the thing is welded in. Tried soaking it in PB Blaster over night. No luck. Short of using a chisel or buy a new sizing die, any suggestions? Any reason why this would happen? I could understand if I dry sized it, but I tend to err on the side of caution.

89blazin · September 4, 2013, 06:32 PM

Vent hole plugged up?

histed · September 4, 2013, 06:37 PM

No, it actually popped the primer easily. Forgot to mention that all the cases I was working with were once fired R-P

Mike / Tx · September 4, 2013, 06:49 PM

IF it separated above the web you might be able to get hold of it with a pair of needle nose pliers and roll it into a smaller diameter by collapsing it, which may let it loosen up.

Worse case ship it to RCBS and they will get it out or ship you a new one.

William T. Watts · September 4, 2013, 06:58 PM

What kind of lub were you using, if I were a guessing man it could be you failed to lube the stuck case. How many times has the case been fired, in relationship to the extractor grove how much of the case is still in the sizing die. Generally when I size a case I can feel if the cases isn't entering the sizing die normally, that one comes back out and I use my thumb and forefinger to make sure the case is lube evenly from extractor grove to shoulder. I've pulled many cases back out of the sizing die over the years and relubed but never have stuck one like you have!! Good luck with the extraction!! William

histed · September 4, 2013, 07:09 PM

The case lube was RCBS lube and, yes, the case was lubed. That's why I only do 3-4 cases at a time and check before I start the case into the die. I have pulled some out and relubed over the years also, but that's the odd thing about this. The case just didn't feel that tight. Snug, yes, but not as bad as some military brass I've done. As for how often it was fired - I got them from my brother who shoot only factory ammo and doesn't reload (or shoot mine), so I can't imagine it was fired more than once. BTW Mike - RCBS will repair or replace for free? I've had these dies forever. what's the scoop?

Jeff2131 · September 4, 2013, 08:49 PM

Yes, rcbs has replaced/repaired two of my .308 FL resizing dies. Had two stuck bad and just shipped it to them. First time the replaced it, second time the removed case and shipped it back. Rcbs has been nothing short of fantastic with me so far. Just an fyi, not sure what gun its is, but if you find a case with slight parallel groving on it, from top of neck down the side of the case, DO NOT run it through your die. IT WILL GET STUCK....EVERY, SINGLE, TIME...lol. learned that one the hard way when i started out. Also, i learned that a drop of locktite thread locker on the threads for the decapping pin will prevent it from loosening up over time and ripping the threads out during use. Rcbs, will teplace the decapping pin assembly for free too if this happens.

jepp2 · September 4, 2013, 08:52 PM

If the case head tore off the case, it almost had to have an incipient case head separation. Otherwise the shell holder would have just pulled off the case rim at the extractor goove. This would mean the case has been sized and fired more than once.

To remove the case I would suggest working from the head end of the case, not the mouth. Dies are very hard. The remainder of the case wall can be collapsed inward. I would start it with a softer steel punch sharpened very sharp. Drive it between the die and the case. Once you get it started, use a brass rod also sharpened to collapse it fully inward. Those materials aren't going to do any damage to the die body.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM

Head separation. You should consider Mike/Tx comment. Send it back to RCBS.

As for my comment I wonder if a 308 shell extractor would work? The same type of tool used for removing base separated cartridge's stuck in rifle barrels.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSe...hell+extractor

histed · September 4, 2013, 11:16 PM

jepp - Thanks for the suggestion. Never thought about the dies being hardened, but you're right. Think I'll try that. Already gave the needle nose a try, but can't do much. Pulled off another piece, but... I'll talk to my brother as well - guess its possible he scared up some brass from a friend or co-worker. Never thought of that either, until your comment about head separation.

That case extractor looks interesting too, Sure Shot. Thanks for the link.

FrankenMauser · September 5, 2013, 12:06 AM

RCBS will repair/replace broken dies for free (unless you did something REALLY stupid and obvious).

For this...
Send the die and a check for $7 to their service address in CA. You'll get the die (or a brand new one) back within about 5 days, generally.

F. Guffey · September 5, 2013, 08:17 AM

“To remove the case I would suggest working from the head end of the case, not the mouth. Dies are very hard. The remainder of the case wall can be collapsed inward. I would start it with a softer steel punch sharpened very sharp. Drive it between the die and the case. Once you get it started, use a brass rod also sharpened to collapse it fully inward. Those materials aren't going to do any damage to the die body”
__________________

if done correctly a cape chisel would be used, I do not suggest driving anything between the stuck case and die body. Then there is the other world, there are drivers and there are pullers, in my short trouble shooting life I have found machine shops driving guides out of holes, when finished the hole was too large for a replacement guide, I suggested pulling the guides, there was something about pounding on one end of the guide that was not understood, seems the pounding upset the guide diameter, when driven through the hole the hole was sized.

F. Guffey

histed · September 5, 2013, 05:50 PM

Thanks to one and all for the help. Finally cleared it tonight using F Guffy's idea and a very sharp punch. Then I cleaned the die, replaced the primer knockout pin and reassembled. As of half an hour ago it was working fine. Don't know if a closer inspection would have helped, but I am looking closer. Thanks again

pearlonionx3 · September 22, 2013, 11:14 AM

Glad you got your stuck case out. Next time you encounter this problem put the die with stuck case in the freezer for a couple of hours. Remove from freezer and tap die mouth on a wooden block set on loading bench. Case usually drops right out!! The reason it works is simple. The coefficient of thermal expansion of brass is significantly higher than for steel. Dropping the temperature to "0" causes the brass case to shrink much more than the die. This has worked for me. Try it next time.

September 4, 2013, 06:29 PM	#1
histed Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 254	Stuck case - REALLY Stuck! Over the years I've managed to stick a few and its never a lot of fun. This time I really did it and can't figure out 1)how in hades it happened or 2) how to get it out. I was loading .308 Winchester, using RCBS dies - full length sizing. As always I was rolling 3-4 cases at a time on my lube pad, then running them through the sizing die. 38 cases, no problem. 39 went in and felt a little tighter, but no real pressure needed. Howsome ever, when I tried to lower the ram it stuck. I tried bumping the ram, then put some real elbow grease on it and... the case separated jut above the web, leaving me with about 3/4 of a case stuck in the die. I disassembled the die - easy enough with the case ripped up - and tried knocking the case out from the neck area. No joy. Its as if the thing is welded in. Tried soaking it in PB Blaster over night. No luck. Short of using a chisel or buy a new sizing die, any suggestions? Any reason why this would happen? I could understand if I dry sized it, but I tend to err on the side of caution. __________________ You Have enemies? Good. That means that you've stood up for something in your life. --Winston Churchill The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt

September 4, 2013, 06:37 PM	#3
histed Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 254	No, it actually popped the primer easily. Forgot to mention that all the cases I was working with were once fired R-P __________________ You Have enemies? Good. That means that you've stood up for something in your life. --Winston Churchill The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt

September 4, 2013, 06:49 PM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	IF it separated above the web you might be able to get hold of it with a pair of needle nose pliers and roll it into a smaller diameter by collapsing it, which may let it loosen up. Worse case ship it to RCBS and they will get it out or ship you a new one. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

September 4, 2013, 07:09 PM	#6
histed Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 254	The case lube was RCBS lube and, yes, the case was lubed. That's why I only do 3-4 cases at a time and check before I start the case into the die. I have pulled some out and relubed over the years also, but that's the odd thing about this. The case just didn't feel that tight. Snug, yes, but not as bad as some military brass I've done. As for how often it was fired - I got them from my brother who shoot only factory ammo and doesn't reload (or shoot mine), so I can't imagine it was fired more than once. BTW Mike - RCBS will repair or replace for free? I've had these dies forever. what's the scoop? __________________ You Have enemies? Good. That means that you've stood up for something in your life. --Winston Churchill The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt

September 4, 2013, 08:52 PM	#8
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	If the case head tore off the case, it almost had to have an incipient case head separation. Otherwise the shell holder would have just pulled off the case rim at the extractor goove. This would mean the case has been sized and fired more than once. To remove the case I would suggest working from the head end of the case, not the mouth. Dies are very hard. The remainder of the case wall can be collapsed inward. I would start it with a softer steel punch sharpened very sharp. Drive it between the die and the case. Once you get it started, use a brass rod also sharpened to collapse it fully inward. Those materials aren't going to do any damage to the die body. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life member

September 4, 2013, 06:32 PM	#2
89blazin Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2009 Posts: 107	Vent hole plugged up?

September 4, 2013, 06:58 PM	#5
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	What kind of lub were you using, if I were a guessing man it could be you failed to lube the stuck case. How many times has the case been fired, in relationship to the extractor grove how much of the case is still in the sizing die. Generally when I size a case I can feel if the cases isn't entering the sizing die normally, that one comes back out and I use my thumb and forefinger to make sure the case is lube evenly from extractor grove to shoulder. I've pulled many cases back out of the sizing die over the years and relubed but never have stuck one like you have!! Good luck with the extraction!! William

September 4, 2013, 08:49 PM	#7
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	Yes, rcbs has replaced/repaired two of my .308 FL resizing dies. Had two stuck bad and just shipped it to them. First time the replaced it, second time the removed case and shipped it back. Rcbs has been nothing short of fantastic with me so far. Just an fyi, not sure what gun its is, but if you find a case with slight parallel groving on it, from top of neck down the side of the case, DO NOT run it through your die. IT WILL GET STUCK....EVERY, SINGLE, TIME...lol. learned that one the hard way when i started out. Also, i learned that a drop of locktite thread locker on the threads for the decapping pin will prevent it from loosening up over time and ripping the threads out during use. Rcbs, will teplace the decapping pin assembly for free too if this happens.

September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM	#9
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Head separation. You should consider Mike/Tx comment. Send it back to RCBS. As for my comment I wonder if a 308 shell extractor would work? The same type of tool used for removing base separated cartridge's stuck in rifle barrels. http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSe...hell+extractor

September 4, 2013, 11:16 PM	#10
histed Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 254	jepp - Thanks for the suggestion. Never thought about the dies being hardened, but you're right. Think I'll try that. Already gave the needle nose a try, but can't do much. Pulled off another piece, but... I'll talk to my brother as well - guess its possible he scared up some brass from a friend or co-worker. Never thought of that either, until your comment about head separation. That case extractor looks interesting too, Sure Shot. Thanks for the link. __________________ You Have enemies? Good. That means that you've stood up for something in your life. --Winston Churchill The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt

September 5, 2013, 12:06 AM	#11
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,421	RCBS will repair/replace broken dies for free (unless you did something REALLY stupid and obvious). For this... Send the die and a check for $7 to their service address in CA. You'll get the die (or a brand new one) back within about 5 days, generally. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

September 5, 2013, 08:17 AM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	“To remove the case I would suggest working from the head end of the case, not the mouth. Dies are very hard. The remainder of the case wall can be collapsed inward. I would start it with a softer steel punch sharpened very sharp. Drive it between the die and the case. Once you get it started, use a brass rod also sharpened to collapse it fully inward. Those materials aren't going to do any damage to the die body” __________________ if done correctly a cape chisel would be used, I do not suggest driving anything between the stuck case and die body. Then there is the other world, there are drivers and there are pullers, in my short trouble shooting life I have found machine shops driving guides out of holes, when finished the hole was too large for a replacement guide, I suggested pulling the guides, there was something about pounding on one end of the guide that was not understood, seems the pounding upset the guide diameter, when driven through the hole the hole was sized. F. Guffey

September 5, 2013, 05:50 PM	#13
histed Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 254	Thanks to one and all for the help. Finally cleared it tonight using F Guffy's idea and a very sharp punch. Then I cleaned the die, replaced the primer knockout pin and reassembled. As of half an hour ago it was working fine. Don't know if a closer inspection would have helped, but I am looking closer. Thanks again __________________ You Have enemies? Good. That means that you've stood up for something in your life. --Winston Churchill The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt

September 22, 2013, 11:14 AM	#14
pearlonionx3 Junior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3	Glad you got your stuck case out. Next time you encounter this problem put the die with stuck case in the freezer for a couple of hours. Remove from freezer and tap die mouth on a wooden block set on loading bench. Case usually drops right out!! The reason it works is simple. The coefficient of thermal expansion of brass is significantly higher than for steel. Dropping the temperature to "0" causes the brass case to shrink much more than the die. This has worked for me. Try it next time.

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