Power Pistol correct load for 45acp

LAlineman · November 14, 2009, 11:22 PM

New to reloading , and thought I,d start with 45acp. I have been buying and using hundreds of 45acp reloads from a local pro reloader. His business sells to all the local ranges in the area. He loads with 5.8gr. of Power Pistol pushing a .451 , 230gr. bullet.( Berry's) My new Lee die chart tells me to use a starting load of 6.7gr. of Power Pistol. I have shot his 5.8gr. for years with no isssues. But now, it seems, that does,nt even meet Lees starting load. What do you guys think? Is 5.8 to low? Or should I just stay to Lees suggested 6.7grs.? Any info would be greatly appreciated so I can get on with this.

zxcvbob · November 14, 2009, 11:43 PM

5.8 is too low (but it should be safe.) Mainly it's just inefficient. If you want a nice gentle target load, use something like Red Dot.

LAlineman · November 15, 2009, 01:19 AM

Ya, Thats what I was thinking. I know he has had trouble getting components lately like all of us. But to keep his business running he probably cut everything to bare bones. So, I guess as far as power Pistol goes, You think Lees recommended 6.7 start is ok ? And I,ll take a look at your suggestion. Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

LAlineman · November 15, 2009, 01:42 AM

Ya, thats what I was thinking. I know he,s had trouble getting components like the rest of us and probably had to cut everything to bare bones. So, I guess as far as Power Pistol, the recommended start load of 6.7gr should be fine. What do you think? And I,ll check out Red Dot. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated!

tom234 · November 15, 2009, 11:35 AM

You can always email Alliant and ask for load data. Unfortunately, Alliant's published data only supports Speer jacketed bullets they are obviously pushing. I was an Alliant fan for decades but switched to AA since they have lead data.

LAlineman · November 15, 2009, 08:27 PM

Thanks, I,ll check it out. Anybody else with an opinion on 45acp 230gr. loaded with Power Pistol I,d appreciate it. And Thanks again, to those of you responding to this.Looking for a good load. Lee,s recommended 6.7gr. or ?

Shoney · November 15, 2009, 08:43 PM

My Alliant shows the following with 230 gr bullets

max with Gold Dot bullet as 7.4gr PP_Old Data
max with TMJ RN bullet as 8.1 PP (08 Manual)

They do not list any loads for PP with any lead or plated bullets.

LAlineman · November 16, 2009, 11:55 PM

Thanks Shoney, This is all good info. Alliant just E-mailed me and recommended 6.0-6.2gr. I think I,ll start here and work up a little. I want to stay with Power Pistol for now because it has good performance. And ,I do compete once in awhile. Glock21Sf.

Powderman · November 17, 2009, 01:21 AM

Friend, I have been handloading and reloading for a bit now. My favorite cartridge for doing so is the .45 ACP, and I have used quite a few powders in it.

Power Pistol is aptly named. I have loaded the 230 grain bullet with Power Pistol. My best results--accuracy and manageability--have been with 6.2 of Power Pistol, crimped to .470 measured at the case mouth. This load chronographs at an honest 830-840 FPS from both my Springfield Armory hardball gun and my Colt Enhanced.

I loaded 6.5 grains once--bad, hard recoil, even with a 20 lb. recoil spring. I personally would not exceed 6.3 grains of Power Pistol with a 230 grain bullet.

LAlineman · November 17, 2009, 09:41 PM

Wow, thank you sir, Very good info. I loaded some 6.2gr. last night. I,m excited to try it. I have a Glock 21 and a Kimber Eclipse. I,ll see how they do with this. Would you recommend a crimp? If so, what kind. I,ve mostly heard "not necessary on pistol". Or should I just screw down the die a bit for a roll crimp? Also, wonder why Lee is recommending the 6.7gr start load? It seems a bit heavy according to other data and Alliant Powder Co.

Powderman · November 18, 2009, 12:29 AM

Two tips:

First, make sure you are loading to the correct overall length (OAL/COAL). For the .45 ACP cartridge, I simply adjust my seater die by putting on a shell holder and inserting a loaded round of .45 ACP ball ammunition. This is the length that the pistol was designed to function with. I then screw in the die (with the seater stem backed all the way out) until the crimp shoulder in the die makes contact with the case--and then unscrew it 1/2 turn. Lock the ring there. Now, screw the seater in until it makes firm contact with the bullet. Leave the seater there, and load away!

I find that it is best to load and crimp in a separate step. Use a TAPER crimp for the .45 ACP, as well as other "rimless" pistol cases like the .40, 9mm, etc. Adjust the crimper until you reach a crimp of .469 to .470, measured at the case mouth.

Tim R · November 18, 2009, 12:39 AM

Powderman, you should use a taper crimp as the case head spaces off the mouth of the case.

Shoney · November 18, 2009, 12:57 AM

Powderman wrote about using a roll crimp rather than the standard taper crimp. Target shooter learned a long time ago that the roll crimp gave better accuracy. The thought being that the crimp increases pressure which promotes a more uniform burn.

I personnaly don't use PP any more becasue of the flash, which is visible during bright light days. Night shooting with PP loads can momentarily blind you. I make sure my loads for night shooting have low flash powder.

Powderman · November 18, 2009, 05:37 PM

Tim, you are spot on...don't know how I missed that one!!!

LAlineman · November 19, 2009, 01:55 AM

Just received my Pistol crimp die from Lee. Worked with it a bit tonight adjusting it. Does this die make the Taper crimp you guys are talking about ? And to be clear, The roll crimp comes from screwing down your seater die an extra 1/2 turn, Correct ? My O.A.L.is 1.273-1.275. And .470 at the case mouth. I think I,m there now. They cycle thru the gun fine. Should be ready for the range test. I sure appreciate all of you guys providing this info. What a great site ! I just wish I could have found it sooner.

Powderman · November 19, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

The roll crimp comes from screwing down your seater die an extra 1/2 turn, Correct ?

Maybe not that much. If you automatically go an extra 1/2 turn, you might end up buckling a case or deforming both case and bullet.

To correct my last post, the roll crimp is generally used in revolvers, and on bullets with a cannelure on them. This gently rolls the crimp into the cannelure; with a roll crimp you can actually see the case mouth turned into the bullet. This is generally found on revolver cases where headspace is controlled by the thickness of the case rim, like .32 Special, .38 Special, .357, .44 Special and Magnum, etc.

The taper crimp presses the case against the side of the bullet, and is commonly used in semi-automatic pistol cartridges. It allows proper case headspace in "rimless" cases like the .45 ACP, .40, 10mm, 9mm, etc.

November 14, 2009, 11:22 PM	#1
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Power Pistol correct load for 45acp New to reloading , and thought I,d start with 45acp. I have been buying and using hundreds of 45acp reloads from a local pro reloader. His business sells to all the local ranges in the area. He loads with 5.8gr. of Power Pistol pushing a .451 , 230gr. bullet.( Berry's) My new Lee die chart tells me to use a starting load of 6.7gr. of Power Pistol. I have shot his 5.8gr. for years with no isssues. But now, it seems, that does,nt even meet Lees starting load. What do you guys think? Is 5.8 to low? Or should I just stay to Lees suggested 6.7grs.? Any info would be greatly appreciated so I can get on with this.

November 14, 2009, 11:43 PM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	5.8 is too low (but it should be safe.) Mainly it's just inefficient. If you want a nice gentle target load, use something like Red Dot. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

November 15, 2009, 01:19 AM	#3
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Too Low Ya, Thats what I was thinking. I know he has had trouble getting components lately like all of us. But to keep his business running he probably cut everything to bare bones. So, I guess as far as power Pistol goes, You think Lees recommended 6.7 start is ok ? And I,ll take a look at your suggestion. Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

November 15, 2009, 01:42 AM	#4
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Power pistol correct load for 45acp Ya, thats what I was thinking. I know he,s had trouble getting components like the rest of us and probably had to cut everything to bare bones. So, I guess as far as Power Pistol, the recommended start load of 6.7gr should be fine. What do you think? And I,ll check out Red Dot. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated! Last edited by LAlineman; November 15, 2009 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Sorry guy,s for the dup. Pushed wrong tab.

November 15, 2009, 08:27 PM	#6
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	45acp loads Thanks, I,ll check it out. Anybody else with an opinion on 45acp 230gr. loaded with Power Pistol I,d appreciate it. And Thanks again, to those of you responding to this.Looking for a good load. Lee,s recommended 6.7gr. or ?

November 15, 2009, 11:35 AM	#5
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	You can always email Alliant and ask for load data. Unfortunately, Alliant's published data only supports Speer jacketed bullets they are obviously pushing. I was an Alliant fan for decades but switched to AA since they have lead data.

November 15, 2009, 08:43 PM	#7
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	My Alliant shows the following with 230 gr bullets max with Gold Dot bullet as 7.4gr PP_Old Data max with TMJ RN bullet as 8.1 PP (08 Manual) They do not list any loads for PP with any lead or plated bullets. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

November 16, 2009, 11:55 PM	#8
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Thanks Shoney, This is all good info. Alliant just E-mailed me and recommended 6.0-6.2gr. I think I,ll start here and work up a little. I want to stay with Power Pistol for now because it has good performance. And ,I do compete once in awhile. Glock21Sf.

November 17, 2009, 01:21 AM	#9
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Friend, I have been handloading and reloading for a bit now. My favorite cartridge for doing so is the .45 ACP, and I have used quite a few powders in it. Power Pistol is aptly named. I have loaded the 230 grain bullet with Power Pistol. My best results--accuracy and manageability--have been with 6.2 of Power Pistol, crimped to .470 measured at the case mouth. This load chronographs at an honest 830-840 FPS from both my Springfield Armory hardball gun and my Colt Enhanced. I loaded 6.5 grains once--bad, hard recoil, even with a 20 lb. recoil spring. I personally would not exceed 6.3 grains of Power Pistol with a 230 grain bullet. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

November 17, 2009, 09:41 PM	#10
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Wow, thank you sir, Very good info. I loaded some 6.2gr. last night. I,m excited to try it. I have a Glock 21 and a Kimber Eclipse. I,ll see how they do with this. Would you recommend a crimp? If so, what kind. I,ve mostly heard "not necessary on pistol". Or should I just screw down the die a bit for a roll crimp? Also, wonder why Lee is recommending the 6.7gr start load? It seems a bit heavy according to other data and Alliant Powder Co.

November 18, 2009, 12:29 AM	#11
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Two tips: First, make sure you are loading to the correct overall length (OAL/COAL). For the .45 ACP cartridge, I simply adjust my seater die by putting on a shell holder and inserting a loaded round of .45 ACP ball ammunition. This is the length that the pistol was designed to function with. I then screw in the die (with the seater stem backed all the way out) until the crimp shoulder in the die makes contact with the case--and then unscrew it 1/2 turn. Lock the ring there. Now, screw the seater in until it makes firm contact with the bullet. Leave the seater there, and load away! I find that it is best to load and crimp in a separate step. Use a TAPER crimp for the .45 ACP, as well as other "rimless" pistol cases like the .40, 9mm, etc. Adjust the crimper until you reach a crimp of .469 to .470, measured at the case mouth. __________________ Hiding in plain sight... Last edited by Powderman; November 18, 2009 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Correcting a REALLY basic error...thanks, Tim R!

November 18, 2009, 12:39 AM	#12
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Powderman, you should use a taper crimp as the case head spaces off the mouth of the case. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

November 18, 2009, 12:57 AM	#13
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Powderman wrote about using a roll crimp rather than the standard taper crimp. Target shooter learned a long time ago that the roll crimp gave better accuracy. The thought being that the crimp increases pressure which promotes a more uniform burn. I personnaly don't use PP any more becasue of the flash, which is visible during bright light days. Night shooting with PP loads can momentarily blind you. I make sure my loads for night shooting have low flash powder. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

November 18, 2009, 05:37 PM	#14
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Tim, you are spot on...don't know how I missed that one!!! __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

November 19, 2009, 01:55 AM	#15
LAlineman Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 82	Just received my Pistol crimp die from Lee. Worked with it a bit tonight adjusting it. Does this die make the Taper crimp you guys are talking about ? And to be clear, The roll crimp comes from screwing down your seater die an extra 1/2 turn, Correct ? My O.A.L.is 1.273-1.275. And .470 at the case mouth. I think I,m there now. They cycle thru the gun fine. Should be ready for the range test. I sure appreciate all of you guys providing this info. What a great site ! I just wish I could have found it sooner.